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Ice Melt used for Calcium

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KeoDog View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 13 2004 at 6:27am

Jon, this is kind of aimed at you because I know you were talking about this at the end of last winter.  Have you done any more research on this now that these products are comming back into the stores?  I was in Sam's Club yesterday and they had 50lb buckets of what said pure calcium chloride for $15.  Futher looking at the ingredients showed the following:

Cas no Calcium Chloride 010043-52-4

Cas no Sodium Chloride 007647-14-5

Cas no Potassium Chloride 007447-40-7

Cas no Water 007732-18-5

Do the numbers at the end mean anything?  I noticed the exact same numbers on a different brand.  Is this the right kind of calcium needed for our tanks?  Is the potassium a bad thing?

Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 7:14am

I've been using Dow Peladow brand ice melt.  It is "pure" anhydrous calcium chloride.  Dow Dowflake is "pure" hydrated calcium chloride.  Randy Holmes Farley analyzed Dowflake for impurities and compared it to other calcium chloride aquarium products in this article:  http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2004/chem.htm

The Peladow that I've been using, according to Dow, is just Dowflake with the mosture removed.  I've not noticed any ill effects from this (and I've been using quite a bit).  So... the only snowmelt that I would feel comfortable using is either Dowflake or Peladow.  Although, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find that many others are just as good.

If you want to try out a different brand, look for a product that is pure white and is mostly calcium chloride.  Pure anhydrous CaCl2 should be about 97% CaCl2.  Peladow is 90% and about 3.7% (other salts... mostly NaCl) so there is still a little mosture in the product.  Fully hydrated CaCl2 would be 70-75% CaCl2.  Prestone markets a snow melt that appears to fit this description.  I probably wouldn't use any product that was less then 70%. 

Re: the CAS numbers
CAS (Chemical Abstract Service) numbers are a unique number given to every chemical known to man.  The name calcium chloride might mean something different in France, but CaCl2 will always have the same identifying number.  To you and me that number means nothing



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 7:22am
Ok, let me get this straight.  You would use either the Dow Peladow or the Dow Dowflake.  Which would you prefer and where can I get it?  I just paid $55 for Kents turbo calcium 3200g and want a cheaper way to go. Thanks.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 7:41am

You would use either the Dow Peladow or the Dow Dowflake.

Yes

Which would you prefer and where can I get it?

Either and I'm not really sure where it's sold .  I got my 50 lb bag of Peladow off a big pallet at my work.  I'll ask our purchasing agent where she gets it.  Before I noticed the Peladow here at work, I bought a container of Prestone Driveway Heat (I saw it at Home Depot and Checker Auto last winter).  I think that this material is packaged by Scottwood Industries for Prestone and is the same as Scottwood's Excel product:  http://www.scotwoodindustries.com/Excel%20-%20MSDS.doc  If I couldn't find either of the DOW products I would probably try the Prestone stuff.  As a matter of fact if you want to try this stuff out you can have my package of Driveway Heat.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 7:45am

I just noticed that in one post I said I would only use one of the Dow products and in the next post I said I would probably use the Prestone product.  I must be confused .  If I were to use the Prestone stuff I would go very slow and watch how everything reacts to it, before going hog wild. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 7:56am
The 2 products I seen at Sam's club must have been both Scottwood.  One bag said SWI but it had magnesium listed as one of the ingredients.  The 50lb bucket from EXCEL did not list the mag.  The data sheet you linked showed it at 94% pure. which seems pretty good.  What is the Dow listed at?  I guess I will try and find a local supplier for the Dow.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 8:07am
Ultimately it's not so much the amount of CaCl2 that's there but the amount of impurities (i.e. heavy metals).  That is why the article by RHF was useful, but only applies to the Dow stuff.  If you decide to try the Excel please let me know what you think.  But I would spend some time trying to find the Dow stuff before buying anything else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 10:10am
Ok Jon, I called up Dow and the lady told me that here in Utah the Peledow is often repackaged and sold as Prestone Driveway Heat.  I asked her if it was the exact same stuff and she said yes.  I also found a place that sells the package by Dow.  Challenger Idustrial buys it by the truck load but he also says he has the 50lb bags from Dow for $18.  He is taking a bag home for me tonight to pick up in South Jordan.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 10:34am

I talked to Univar who is the distributor for Dow in Utah.  They sell to a number of places (but not to indivuduals... unless you're buying a pallet load) and suggested I try The Janitor's Closet (532-3812) or Waxie Sanitary Supply (367-5490).  Both places are selling 50 lb bags of Peladow for $18 too.  It looks like it won't be that hard to find afterall.

Good news on the Prestone stuff too...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 12:06pm

So you are using this as an unbalanced calcium additive? What do you use to keep your alk up?  What would be the advantage of this over something like Kalkwaser? Both are pretty cheap. Can this be added faster than kalkwaser?

Jared Neilsen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 12:07pm
I wonder if the Prestone product uses both the Dow and The Scottwood when they repackage depending on pricing/availability. Was there labling on your container showing Scottwood?
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 12:52pm

Jared,  unbalanced additive.  I use baking soda (or baked baking soda, washing soda) for alkalinity.  The advantage over kalkwasser is that I can add whatever the tank needs without really effecting pH.  The disadvantage is that is unbalanced and prolonged usage can lead to higher then NSW levels of sodium and chloride.

Kevin,  I'll check when I get home, but I'm pretty sure it had a Scottwood Industries logo somewhere on the label.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 5:07pm

Sure 'nuff.  My Prestone Driveway Heat says "Distributed by Scotwood Industries, Inc".

I wonder if the Prestone product uses both the Dow and The Scottwood when they repackage depending on pricing/availability. Was there labling on your container showing Scottwood?

It could just as easily be the other way around... i.e. Scotwood doesn't actually "manufacture" anything they just buy in bulk, repackage and sell under their name.  Happens all the time.  Excel = Driveway Heat = Peladow.  And I think Dow is one of the largest calcium chloride producers in the USA.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 6:02pm
How do you add this stuff to your tank and in what quantities?  I suppose you test Calcium before adding it.  True?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 7:39pm
The same way you would use Turbo Calcium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2004 at 11:02pm
To me that means just dump some in the sock in the sump.  But is this a good way to do it or am I just wasting it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2004 at 5:44am
I just dump some in my sump about twice a week.  It just dissolves so I don't see how you would be wasting it unless youcan see that it is percipitating out of the water or building up in your sock.  I picked up some of the peladow yesterday.  Wow what a big savings this will be for me.  $18 for 50lbs compared to Kents turbo calcium $392 FOR 50lbs ($55 for 7 lbs)
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jglover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2004 at 8:16am
I like your method will.  hey john what exactlyis baked baking soda? and how exactly do you use it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2004 at 8:36am
It's one of the components of Reef Buffer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2004 at 8:44am
When you bake baking soda it will change it from sodium bicarbonate to sodium carbonate.  Jon will correct me if I'm wrong.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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