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ffc3
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Topic: Coral quarantine Posted: October 02 2003 at 1:20pm |
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Does anybody here quarantine coral so ich or something else embedded in the rock the coral is attached to doesn't infect fish in a reef?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 02 2003 at 11:07pm |
Not necessary.
Ich is already in your tank, but hopefully the tank environment is healthy and your fish are healthy enough to avoid an outbreak!
Some coral eat the Ich protozoan in it's floating stage.
Another reason to enjoy the coral animals!
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ffc3
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Posted: October 03 2003 at 7:59am |
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I put all my fish in a hospital tank and am letting my reef tank remain fishless for a couple of months. I wouldn't want to reintroduce ich from anything after doing all that.
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 03 2003 at 8:39am |
As Mark said, you will definately have ich in your reef tank. That really isn't a problem. It is providing conditions so it doesn't take over that is the problem. But there is no way to avoid ich with a reef tank. Sorry.
Adam
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Kam Blake
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Posted: October 03 2003 at 4:48pm |
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What about UV. In the reef tank, It kills ich and everything else in the water.
It has been recomended buy 2 lfs. But I still dont have one.
Any????
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ewaldsreef
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Posted: October 03 2003 at 10:38pm |
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If you quarantine all the new corals you get then you will have to aclimate them twice. Once to the qt tank and once to the main tank. I belive that this would cause extra stress on the corals and you would have a reduced rate of success.
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ffc3
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Posted: October 04 2003 at 8:16am |
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What's the point of hospital tanks and quarantine tanks if ich is still going to be in the reef tank? The other forums said that if the reef tank remains fishless all the ich and any other parasites would die because they would not have a host and medication would kill the parasites in the quarantine or hospital tank. I had to take out all my corals and rocks to catch all my fish so I'm just frustrated that I might have wasted my time.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 04 2003 at 8:31am |
ffc3, Please listen to pistonfister. He knows what he is talking about. The same goes for fish. You are stressing them twice by using a quarantine tank. If anyone here uses a quarantine tank successfully, please speak up and give us some details.
Adam said it well. provide a healthy environment for fish and coral to be introduced into the best possible conditions to fend off the protazoan parasites and other stress induced illnesses.
After years of experience, we don't bother with quarantine tanks.
Please don't get the idea that this will keep fish from stressing and getting infested with ich, but what I am saying is that comparing the two methods, I've experienced personally and have heard from other experienced hobbyists, a better success rate by eliminating the quarantine tank. Spend the effort you would on a quarantine tank on determining how to give the organisms a healthy environment.
Then if your new fish gets ich, which happens often anyway, even when coming from a quarantine tank, it can recover!
Kam, Experienced hobbyists don't use UV. It kills everything and that is not good. A healthy tank supports tons of symbiotic life. Don't disturb the balance by killing it. UV is used by some maintenance companies for large tanks. But those are usually not true reef tanks but rather FWLR tanks. The absence of coral means nothing is comsuming the bad microbes!
If this advice goes against things you've read and heard, I'm not surprised. There is a lot of misinformation and antiquated information out there.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 04 2003 at 8:35am |
Personally, I would use this forum as a place to set everything straight. Read and study, then ask this forum and follow it's advice. We need to realize that many people out there can talk up a storm but they are quite inexperienced.
edit
ffc3 quoted that "The other forums said that if the reef tank remains fishless all the ich and any other parasites would die because they would not have a host and medication would kill the parasites in the quarantine or hospital tank". Wow, that was the opinion of some inexperienced people! Ich will survive the medications and will ride in on fish! We do not want the kind of steril environment where protazoans and all other microbes cannot exist!!!!!!!!
Edited by Mark Peterson
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 04 2003 at 8:37am |
ffc3 wrote:
What's the point of hospital tanks and quarantine tanks if ich is still going to be in the reef tank? The other forums said that if the reef tank remains fishless all the ich and any other parasites would die because they would not have a host and medication would kill the parasites in the quarantine or hospital tank. I had to take out all my corals and rocks to catch all my fish so I'm just frustrated that I might have wasted my time. |
The parasites would not die. That is simply not true. Now a UV sterilizer helps, and it does kill everything that goes through it, but you can't force all your water through it. And there really isn't a way to quarantine corals, because in adding something to the water to kill the parasite, you will kill the coral. You can reduce the ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) or whatever else by the methods mentioned here, but you can not get rid of it. This frustration may be exactly why many people don't set up hospital tanks, for the reason that they don't see them working. However they do work to some degree. You can quarantine your fish and remove all the parasites currently on them, get them healthy, then put them in your reef tank and hope they are able to defend themselves from whatever is in your tank.
Adam
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Ryan Willden
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Posted: October 04 2003 at 1:36pm |
ffc3 do a search on this board for Garlic, and read about the success many people have had in using it to help their fish ward off Ich and other stuff... It really works! I have used it for over a year, and haven't lost a fish from Ich since. (Though I may have lost a few from indigestion...  ) Seriously though, Garlic seems to have a property that helps prevent infection, etc.
Ryan
Edited by Ryan Willden
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 04 2003 at 1:57pm |
Wow, while I was typing that last response Mark made two more posts, and I didn't even notice them. I think he answered things well, I guess I didn't need to post anything. Sorry if our quick responses looked like know-it-all-flaming-answers. Just trying to help.
Adam
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ffc3
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Posted: October 04 2003 at 4:38pm |
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Thanks, I went out to a LFS and bought some garlic and will try it.
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ffc3
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Posted: October 06 2003 at 3:46pm |
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I'm not trying to offend anyone here, especially since I have only a couple of months experience, but do you guys consider the people at reefkeeping magazine and other seemingly professional sources online "inexperienced" because they feel very strongly about the pros of quarantine.
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 06 2003 at 4:52pm |
There are pros to a quarantine tank. They really do work for getting all the parasites off your fish. And it does allow them time without getting picked on by other fish. No one will argue that. We were just saying that trying to keep a pristine reef aquarium without parasites and viruses and bacteria and all that is not going to happen.
Eventually you have to put them in the reef tank with all the dangerous stuff... that is afterall why you bought the fish to begin with.
Adam
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ewaldsreef
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Posted: October 06 2003 at 6:18pm |
ffc3, I am sure the magazine you are reading has very good info. One thing that you will find in this hobbie is differant opions and veiws. Millions of them  .
in fact what works for one may not work for another. There is a lot to be said from getting advise from experanced hobbiests however no advise from anyone is 100%. If you feel strongly one way than go ahead and try it. you may be right. Just remember you are dealing with life and it should be treated with respect. The advise I give is just based on my own personal experance. So I guess my point is just becuase a magazine says somthing doesnt make it 100%. The only way to find out is to gather as much info as you can and try it. Hope that helps somewhat. Oh BTW what does ffc3 stand for?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 06 2003 at 6:49pm |
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The magazine is not the authority. Consider the magazine like a TV Station airing an infomercial!
They simply print articles written by ordinary Joe's like you and I that are looking to have their article published in the magazine for the going price(usually $200 - $500). The magazine just wants the article to be good from the standpoint of whether it makes sensible statements and logical conclusions. It's still up to us to interpret the writers conclusions and see if the technique works!
In this case everyone here seems to be saying that quarantine tanks have limited effectiveness. Only when the fish clearly has a parasitic infection. Otherwise, a healthy and active fish is just as well off placed directly into a healthy tank to fend for itself.
Thankfully Garlic is an effective deterrent to ich.
Does anyone know at what point in the ich life cycle the garlic does its job?
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jfinch
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Posted: October 06 2003 at 6:53pm |
Maybe I don't understand the biology of ich, but I don't know why you couldn't have a tank with no ich... Doesn't ich require a fish host to complete it's lifecycle? If that host is not found, the parasite dies doesn't it? So if you set up a tank, cycle the rock without any fish for a month or two, then quarantine each and every fish for a month or two before adding to the tank, wouldn't that ensure a tank with no ich? I realize that ich is only one of many ailaments that can infect a fish and this may do nothing to reduce those, but... If that is in fact the lifecycle of ich, I think ffc3's question regarding quarantining coral is very interesting...
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Ryan Willden
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Posted: October 06 2003 at 7:05pm |
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I tried to quarantine "Ich Laden" fish that were already established in my main tank, in a hospital tank. It didn't work. I found that it just stressed them out more, and they died every time. I've never tried to "Pre-Quarantine" them.
As far as Garlic goes, I don't know when in the life cycle that it does it's job, but I do know that I've had fish with Ich covering them, and the Garlic "cured" them completely within a couple of days. However, I should mention that even though I used the word "cure", it is meant loosely. I don't believe anything can cure, or replace the concept of a healthy and clean system. If your system is healthy enough, you shouldn't ever have a problem with Ich. However, since I started using Garlic soaked food as a preventative measure, and have kept my water params within check, I haven't had a problem with Ich. I do believe that Garlic can give a fish that is suddenly stressed by something in your tank (another fish, chemical overload, etc) a second chance. However, if your water parameters are not where they should be, Garlic won't solve the problem.
In new systems I would recommend it to anyone, because the system is not well established yet and can fluctaute. In the case of a sudden rise in organic waste, etc. It can help the fish endure the changes that often accompany a new tank's acclimation process, and possibly prolong their life given that the "change" to their atmosphere is not long-lived.
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ffc3
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Posted: October 06 2003 at 8:25pm |
Jfinch, I'm not a biologist either but from what I've read, the parasite breaks out of the encysts in the sand and rock and finds a fish to form a cyst on. I'm thinking the only way ich can be always present in aquariums is that when the parasites come out of the sand and rock to find a host to grow and doesn't find one it can turn back into an encyst. That seems unlikely to me but possible. Even if it is possible. How often can it do that without dieing because it needs nutrients from the fish to survive?
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