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    Posted: March 18 2006 at 10:34am
Angel, most bulbs are like that. The ballast also has a contribution in the
final color output of the bulb. As bulbs are "burned in" they change color as
well, therefore, the although the rated output may be 10000k the true color
output may be a range around the rated output. But these are just a
technicality, and most hobbbyists accept it. This only serves to explain why
someone's 10000k bulbs is bluer and someone else's looks a bit yellow.
Therefore, its just a detail, please dont sweat over it too much. It helps when
you are comparing different 10000k bulbs and different ballasts. The Ushio
bulbs they are selling are very good and many people on the forum here use
them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2006 at 8:57am

sshm,

Thank you for the thoughtful response.  I was definately going for the MH and VHO for the arctinic.  And would swap out the 6500k for a 10000 - what I did not realize is that some bulbs are not true to their rated output.  (Uggg)

I'll email them and see what's up.  Thanks for the heads up on the typo as well.

The lighting of the tank is so important, and for me, the single largest investment of the project.  But I'm also finding it to be really difficult subject to grasp.  For instance I thought that the kelvin rating would determine the visable color - not the ballast.  And as you can tell I'm still undecided on MH vs HOT5s (Mark!). 

So, I'll keep slogging away and am gratful to the people who give so generously of their knowledge. 

Connie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sshm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2006 at 3:40am
Angel,
There are a few things in that webpage, I am not sure of, but it would be
best if you got in touch with them and clarfied a few points.
1) It seems to me that they ship with 175w 5,500k MH bulbs, in other
words, the prices next to each setup seem to include the above bulbs. If
you need any other MH bulb, you probably will need to upgrade and that
will cost extra. Now you may buy them with these bulbs but without good
actinic supplementation you probably will not appreciate how they light
up your tank, and not all corals will like the color (especially those that
need light in 420nm/450nm)
2) It doesnt say what kind of choice you have on the VHOs. It probably is
VHO actinic, in which case you will probably be in good shape since the
VHO actinics are the best.

If you do indeed go for this setup (MH+VHO), I'd reccomend you not get
the 5,500k bulbs but go with either the Iwasaki 250W or if you'd rather
keep 175W bulbs then ditch the 5,500k bulbs in favor of the Ushio
10000k bulbs. Both these bulbs have superior PAR.

If you go with MH only, then again the 5,500k color MH may not give the
best look to your tank and I am not aware of a 5,500k bulb with good
PAR. Therefore, if you go with this option you may want to swap out the
standard bulbs with the upgrade option. I couldnt find CCT (Correlated
Color Temperature - a measure of how true the color output is with
respect to the rated output) Hamilton 14000k bulb, therefore I am not
sure it puts out 14000k or even anything close to that (I will have to look
up Sanjay Joshi's paper to figure out why the Hamiltons have no CCT data
in his measurements). I would suggest the Iwasaki 6500k which spits out
the best PAR of any 6500k or 250w bulb but again you may not
appreciate the yellowish-white light (although depending on the ballast it
may even run bluish white). For a MH only setup, the best option they
have there seems to be the 20,000k Radium which has good PAR among
20,000k bulbs (and has a significant 450nm component) but it will add
2x$98 to the cost.
Please email the Marine Depot folks for their advice and clarification. We
can tell you here if they are being true or trying to unload something on
you.

ps: There is someone here selling a Hamilton setup, perhaps they would
give better feedback on the performance of these systems.

another ps: There is a typo on the webpage, the IceCap ballast listed
under the fluoroscent upgrade option is not a 430W ballast, its just a
designation ie 430 and not 430W, just FYI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2006 at 12:41pm

OK, I keep flip flopping on the lighting T5 and MH.  Do you all have opinions on this Hambilton set-up? It's not a very sexy hood  but it does seem to have a good price unless there are things I'm not seeing.  Free shipping helps!

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_lighting_metal_halide_fi xtures.asp

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 4:49pm
Yup, that was the way I was going to go too.  After all it was reccomended by the experts.
Connie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xokay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 10:26am
Originally posted by ryanj ryanj wrote:

You should read this:

http://www.marinedepot.com/FORUMS/Topic28421-14-1.aspx

"Right now, I am looking into utilizing several plasma cutting torches mounted above my aquarium.  They give off a nice bluish flame and such intense light"

: )

W Jordan
55g
3-5" DSB: Fiji Pink, Reef grade, oolitic, crushed coral
80# LR/LBTR
4x65W pc /LunarTracker
w/ window light
30g Sump/2xRefug RD vho
CPR skimmer Mag 3 return
undersand SCWD w/ Mag 7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 9:02am

Ryan,

It took me a minute to realize that article was current with this discussion!  That is very informative and right on the money here.  That certainly seems to again point this lighting away from MH's!  I will have to look more carefully at what kinds of lighting that the LPS and softies like and will keep in mind to stay away from the more aggressive corals.  Maybe I'll make a list of the more aggressive corals to consult when my eye gets caught by that pretty frag in the window!

Mark, you may be right about changing in a year (I'm already on my third round of different lights and my third tank if we consider the FW planted).  I'd hope I could find something that will last longer than that!  The tank I put the PCs on is in a west facing bay window.  I will have to control heat vs lighting with the individual louvers. 

 

Connie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryanj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 2:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 10:20pm

Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

I'll look at that.  The Hello lights site has a DIY retrofit kit that will get 2 long VHO and 2 250 watt MH in a reflector with cords for $545.

And the BIY (build it youself) kits are 10% off for the month of March.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 9:26pm

What if those T5HO lights were called HOTS.

Get it? The 5 could be drawn like an S.

Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 9:22pm

Lighting is not just about keeping and growing coral. In many cases it's not about saving $$ either.  Some people like the look and shimmer of MH. Others like the look and color of VHO. Both lighting types grow the most difficult coral, SPS. I've seen some T5HO setups. They are bright and economical and certainly an option that is worth checking out. I have no doubt that they are more light for the dollar, but still, there is one light way cheaper than that. Nothing compares to the color, shimmer and economy of using the actual sun.

Call around and check out the lighting options of people that have posted here and I'm sure that, in the end, if you are human, you will have something you like for about a year.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 8:56pm
Wow!  Thank you for the valuabel and well thought out imput!  I am going to seriously consider the T5HOs. 
Connie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dadofrad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 8:44pm

You are more than welcome to come see my aquarium if you would like. I am running my t5's on an IceCap which overdrives the lights and makes them even brighter. I am running 2 aquablue and 2 10k. I love the set up and will be running t5's on my new aquarium.

My current light fixture is extremely rough. I had someone offer to buy my aquarium 1 week after getting the t5's, and haven't finished a hood.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sshm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

  sshm
what do you like about the T5HO over the MH?  I do know that the bulbs
are cheaper!




Angel,
First of all let me just say that you are already doing things right, it is
important to research before buying and I am happy to give my opinion
on the T5HO. There are many who still swear by MH and it has been tried
and tested as far as intensity levels go and their ability to grow polyps
that were unthinkable a few years back. The downsides to the MH bulbs
that I consider are that they are almost a focussed source of light, they
produce a lot of heat and their efficiency is low compared to T5HO bulbs.
I wont comment on the downsides of MH but I'd rather comment on the
+s of using a T5HO fixture. First, they produce a lot less heat, if the
ballast is remote from the hood even more so. That means less heat you
need to take out of your tank, so a chiller need not be necessary. With a
tank length as yours, the T5HO bulb will be 54w, if you can cram even 6
of them, thats more than 300watts. This may seem to be about 200w
short of 2x250w MH fixture however, the penetration of the T5HO is
comparable to the MH if the T5HO comes with a decent reflector. If
your goal is not to keep some crazy signature series SPS which will RTN if
a snail sneezes in the sump then you are good to go with 6x54w T5HOs.
Moreover, if you go with 6 Giessemann aquablue lamps, then you can
probably even keep some really cool SPS as well, and you will get a crisp
bluish-white color. The best actinic you can get will be from a VHO bulb,
nothing comes close. However, if you go wiith the aquablue which is 40%
actinic and puts out light which has an additional peak at the 420nm
range, you wont need actinic supplementation. Moroever, the phosphors
used are stable in these bulbs so you will only need to change bulbs at
about 2 years of use.
To summarize, the T5HOs cost less to run, offer almost the same PAR
(photosynthetically active/available radiation) as MHs, give out less heat
and last longer.
Here a few good options if you go T5HO:
DIY project:
link
This is an awesome deal, because for 150bucks, you get 2 54w T5HO
lamps (choose giessemann aquablue), a ballast, all wiring and most
important the Tek individual reflectors (these can really concentrate and
punch the light down). You can easily put in 6 bulbs so thats 3 sets of
everything you need and free shipping - $465 shipped, for 324w total of
T5HO.
If you dont want to DIY and want a cool looking fixture:
link
This has a single reflector, I dont know how good that is, but I assume
there will be some restrike from the adjacent bulbs which may increase
the heat somewhat. If you go for this I'd reccomend the 3-3 option of
midday-aquablue, the middayy is 6500k which is about what corals at the
top of the reef get (i.e. most shallow SPSs), but the 6 aquablues is always
a good option.
If you really want to keep SPS:
link
thats an 8 light fixture. Its about 19" wide so it will overshoot your tank
by 1".
A cheaper (though not as good looking) option than the above would be
this:
link
Go with the no bulb option, so it would cost 260 and still be free
shipping. Then choose 8 aquablues at almost 27 each, thats 216 and also
free shipping. so thats less than $500 in total. This fixture will be 21"
wide, and not as cool looking as the tek.
I hope that others will advise you on the merits of MH (never used them)
over T5HO so you can make a decision that suits you best. I have gone
with T5HOs over my 20gH tank and all the SPS I have have kept their
color, except a monti cap that bleached from the light.


Edited by sshm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 5:54pm
I'll look at that.  The Hello lights site has a DIY retrofit kit that will get 2 long VHO and 2 250 watt MH in a reflector with cords for $545.
Connie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryanj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 5:51pm
You can get two Aqua medic Oceanlight pendants with 20K bulbs for around $500 to $600.  Talk to steve Burton too, he can get good deals.  (Burton Marine)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 5:41pm

Sure, I'll ask!

Connie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rocky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 5:39pm

Connie,

You might PM NITRO, I know he has dual 250W MH that he isn't using, maybe he'll want to part with the.

Rocky

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Currently Tankless :(

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 5:35pm

Well information and imput is what I want - even if it puts me back to the drawing board.  I knew I'd have to buy the bulb and the reflector for the PFO but I hadn't taken into consideration a socket. 

For a while I was looking at the plug and play coralife with the VHO's and the MH's but after consideration I thought I could DIY it cheaper and leave more room for options as I went along. 

I can see what you mean that the tank might be lopsided or shadowed by just having one light.  I guess I'll control lighting with depth. I don't feel like I have to have SPS - I do love the LPS and softies.   

I'd buy used if I can find just the right lighting for my needs.  Is there another place to look besides here?  (I'm never sure what I'm getting into with ebay because i don't know manufacturer names very well. 

I have decided to have an open top - no canopy - so a pendant would work for me.  In the plan above, I had been going to put the tubes and MH's and on a top plank with front flashing so that the lights aren't beaning the viewer in the eyes.  (then I thought I could do something decorative so it didn't look rough)

I don't have a lighting preference because I lack the experience.  sshm what do you like about the T5HO over the MH?  I do know that the bulbs are cheaper!

Amount to spend.... well the plug and play coralife is about $850 for 175 watts and much more for 250s (and it seems that the price has just increased by $100 while I've been considering it).  While plug and play is an attractive itea, that price really gives me pause - I'm thinking that is more than I can spend.  So, the more affordable it is, the better (got to feed the fish after all) but yet I don't want to go so cheap that it isn't adequate either. 

Other questions?  Ideas? 

Connie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryanj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 12:43pm

Connie,

I have that exact size tank.  I have two t5 bulbs as supplemental lighting (sunlight supply tek t5's) and two 250W HQI pendants (aquamedic oceanlights with 14K bulbs)  The supplemental lighting is a must because it just adds to the light and brightness of the tank.  I wouldn't get just one MH though.  I had a bulb burn out and for a week I only had one MH on the tank, it was way too dark on the other side.  It was like light and day, and not very pretty.  It would look really wierd if you had one MH on one side and none on the other.  And if you put a MH right in the middle of the tank, then the brace would cast a huge shadow. 

I have heard good things about PFO, just keep in mind that you have to buy that ballast, the bulb, a reflector, and a socket for the bulb.  you are probably going to spend as much money on all that as you would just buying a ballast and a pendant together.  the MH I have comes with ballast, pendant, and bulb for $279.  They aren't cheap.  If you are ever down here in Utah County feel free to come see my tank.

Ryan

and eveything sshm asked would be nice to know. 

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