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refugium contents and water flow

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Jwallent View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 24 2003 at 6:26pm
How much water flow should I have in my refugium?
I have a 6-7 gallon capacity refugium with about 200gph of water flow. There realy doesn't appear to be much water motion in there at all. I'm getting a lot of mossy-brown-like algae growth as well as good caulerpa growth from it. But I'm not sure if I would be better off with more water motion. In a refugium is more flow better than less flow??????
As well, other than caulerpa, what else is usually included in a refugium??
Thanks
Jeremy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GonZo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2003 at 7:40pm
I've got a DSB (deep sand bed), algae, LR (live rock), 2 peppermint shrimp, a sea star and tons of worms and little creepy crawlies. It has made a huge difference in my tank health. (Kudos to Marcus, Adam, and Mark for all their help in setting it up!!)
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2003 at 7:52pm
That water flow is sufficient, but there is no ideal flow. Refugium can be thought of as a tidal pools.

I assume you are making it RDP(Reverse Daylight Photosynthesis). Rfoote commented to me the other evening at his place that his coral now stay open at night, and do better, thanks to his RDP Refugia.

I was at SSpargur's house today checking out his algae problem. I advised him to double the light on his refugia because that will grow algae faster thus capturing nutrients before they can grow algae in the main tank.

The mossy brown stuff is normal. It's a combination of cyanobacteria algae and diatomaceous algae. It's suggested that you add numerous snails to eat that algae.

Also be sure that you start seeing a lot of small amphipods and copepods in the refugia. The Amphipods are called Grammeras and they look like little curled shrimp. Copepods come in varous shapes that look to the naked eye like tiny, round, white, moving spots on the glass. These critters eat algae before you can see it and along with Bristleworm larvae are a major source of live food for the tank as they get sucked out of the refugia and into the main tank.

Caulerpa is actually a dangerous algae to rely on 100%.
It can go sexual. That is, it can melt away in less than a day, leaving the tankwater with all the nutrients the caulerpa was holding and leaving the tank without the intended nutrient removal processes. It is suggested that you grow other non-caulerpa macroalgae and Mangroves.

P.S. Bristleworms are our friends. Part of the cleanup crew, they will actually ingest particles of substrate, cleaning it of organic matter as it passes through.

This is how I would like
my next Mangrove to look:


Here is how it might look in a refugia:


The article about my first RDP Refugia may be helpful to you. I believe it may be found in one of the issues of the Sea Star Online. Click on the blue button over to the left.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jwallent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2003 at 9:29pm
Thanks for the advice!!!
My main concern with doing a RDP is that becasuse the refugium is hanging on the back it would also get light during the day and thus would never have a dark period. My understanding is that a dark period is necessary for the amphipods and copepods. Is that correct?
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Adam Blundell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2003 at 9:49pm

My refugium hangs on the back (as you've seen) but since it is against the wall, and is made of black acrylic it doesn't get daylight.  Atleast not much.  Not sure how your refugium is set up, but if it is getting daylight, I would still run it with a RDP light.  I think the algae is more in need of a dark cycle than the inverts are.  Hmm, I wonder what others think.  I also think that RDP is over-rated (sorry Mark) so I'm not sure I would worry about it.  But then again, why not do it... you've got nothing to lose?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beware Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2003 at 11:16pm
In The Ocean There Is Also Moon and StarLight So Its Never Completly Dark...Beware
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2003 at 6:51am
That is a sick looking sump! Looks like some blonde set it up before she knew how to make cool sumps! Can you please delete it before somebody sees it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2003 at 8:45am

Jeremy. I am a little confused by the first part of the post. You had said "In a refugium is more flow better than less flow?" Are you strictly speaking of water motion or of actual water exchange between the sump and the main tank? If it is the latter, it should self-regulate or overflow. As for the sump, I would assume that different configurations of sumps will dictate. more restrictions in the sump, more water movement will be required to ensure that the entire volume of water has movement, aeration, gas exchange, etc.

I would also agree that the lights affect the algae more than the pods or whatever. Besides, IMO they will eat when they are hungry enough no matter the conditions.

Adam, I think that the RDP is a good thing. I have seen tanks with and without. There seems to be a HUGE difference in corals remaining open. I would assume that this would be due to a more sabalized PH.  How do you spell stabalized? That's not right..... s-t-a-b-i-l-i-z-e-d? OK stabilized. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2003 at 12:08pm
Suzy, I wasn't sure if that was your refugia, but it came from old Reef Tour pics. My purpose for using it was to show that the Mangrove does work and the refugia isn't necessarily there for looks. Did you ever get a photograph or digital pic of that one beautiful, bushy Mangrove before it died?

To darken a tank or hanging box/refugia, I've used black construction paper or aluminum foil wrapped around it. An opaque cap could also be made....

The popular mud eco-system suggests light 24/7 in an attempt to keep Caulerpa from going sexual and totally dissolving away, but personally I notice stress in the algae when there is no day-night period.

As Adam said, RDP is not a necessity. But IMO a refugia is always a help even if just for the filtration and food production benefits.

To decide whether RDP lighting would help a tank, check pH before dawn. If it is below 8.1, the tank would benefit from RDP lighting.

If making a sump/refugia is not practical, the other options to RDP lighting are an increase in aeration, by increasing gas exchange at the water surface. "Out with the bad air - in with the good" This is accomplished with increased water movement at the water surface and fans blowing across the surface.
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
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