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Learn From My Mistake... Please!

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Carl View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 30 2003 at 9:14pm

I just thought that I would share my bit of.... stupidity.... excitement.... learning... whatever you want to call it. About 30 minutes ago I was sitting here at the puter researching cleaning crew packages when I heard a POP and a whoosh. My new 125 is right next to me and I thought something major had happened.

With a pucker factor of 10 I jumped into action. Seeing a flood of water emerging from inside the cabinet I hrew open the doors to see a stream of water shooting up into the air and out of the cabinet. I couldn't reach my powerstrip, I hadn't mounted it where I wanted to yet and it was behind the sump/fuge. So I looked down and put my hand over the source of the fountain... the return pump. I didn't think about just pulling it out of the water and letting it run dry, so I tried to reach the powerstrip with my free hand to shut it off. Of course it was wet and so was I, so yes, put a lightbulb in my mouth, I make a terriffic ground! If I had hair I am sure that it would have curled. Of course I tried this a couple more times with the same effect. I guess it's the masochist in me.

I then (after 5 minutes of trying) was able to get the hose back over the nipple on the outlet of the pump without losing too much water in the process.

So, moral of the story... If you are using soft connections, use hose clamps! I didn't think about this because the guy I bought this setup from didn't use one... so why should I? Well... BECAUSE I KNOW BETTER! Making the initial connections I even said to myself, "Self, you should use hose clamps".

I guess my basement could use the water anyway. 10 0r so gallons on the floor isn't too bad is it?

In Syracuse

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ewaldsreef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2003 at 9:17pm
My basement has seen more than 10 gallons
I dont have clamps on my hoses but after reading this what could it hurt?? I will put some on there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crazy-sps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2003 at 9:28pm
Carl, thank you so much for the story.  I promise I am laughing with you.  We have all done it once or twice or three or ...  Well, you get the point.  I was filling up a new sump I got once and forgot there was a hole in the back for the r/o.  I couldn't figure out why it was taking so long to fill up until it sloshed into my kitchen.  Needless to say, the carpet got a re-stretchin after that one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 7:11am
Hey, I did that that with a super pump! It was like Ol' Faithful
shooting straight up into the electrical outlet! I did found out the
GFCI worked!

I put cable ties on them and it seems to be working. I've only seen
metal hose clamps at Home Depot. Can you get salt water
compatible ones?

Carl, I've got one GFCI left, if you need one....Unless you really are a
masochist..
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Adam Blundell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 7:23am

Wow in all my years, I've always used soft connections and no clamps.  I think I will fix that thanks to Carl.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 7:28am

LOL... I am glad that I am not the only one who has made some boo boos. I thought that I was a moron for leaving the return heads in the tank pointed up when I first turned the tank on! OK, I was a moron for doing that.

Suzy, I will use the clamps at home depot. There isn't a corrosion-proof metal that you can get. There are coatings, but I don't think that it's necessary and they can get expensive.  The metal clamps should last for a decent amount of time, I guess we'll see. I have not seen plastic clamps before. As for zip ties, it really depends on what the line is. Often, a return line is under too much psi for a zip tie to properly hold onto the nipple or barb. But, a zip tie will work well for a low pressure line in a barb. And thanks for the gfci offer. Actually, my power strip should have popped off when this happened, so I will be replacing it. Thanks though!



Edited by Carl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crazy-sps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 8:09am
Carl, there are plastic clamps you can get.  You have to get them at LFS.  The "snap" together with a couple different sizes.  I think its U.S. Aquarium that makes them.  If you get metal ones, get Stainless Steel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 8:35am
I put the metal ones in our sump for about two weeks and they
rusted significantly....
Is a zip tie the same as a cable tie?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 8:37am

I use SS in my work projects. Although it's not corrosion proof, it does better than galvanized. I have them performing well in may applications, coastal and non, but not submerged as this would be... I will think about it.

I do know of the clamps that you're talking about. I don't know if I like them. Sometimes they are a pain to get the pliers on to properly tighten and I have had them fail easily at times. IMO, they are more of a glorified zip tie. I don't know, maybe I will give it a try. Have you had good success with them? Thanks!

Suzy, yes they are the same... and was it surface rust or deep pitting rust?



Edited by Carl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crazy-sps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 8:56am
Carl, I would be afraid of the galvanizing coating's composition in my tank.
I have used the plastic ones with good success.  The only time I use soft connections is with Sea Swirls.  I use spiralite everywhere I need some give.  I would not trust a zip tie.  Seems to hard to get tight enough. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 9:22am

I've always used SS hose clamps on my lines, but never submerged.  You might consider hardpiping from the pump to somewhere outside of the water, then make the transition to hose.  I personally would not use stainless submerged in my reef tank.  But I might be more worried then others. 

The typical corrosion route of 300 series stainless steels in seawater is pitting and crevise corrosion due to the chlorides in the the water.  This is accelerated when the metal is in the "splash zone", ie spends some time wet and some time dry, which could be the case with a pump in the sump.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 9:27am

Carl, I would be afraid of the galvanizing coating's composition in my tank.

I would never use anything galvanized near saltwater (unless you think you need more zinc in your tank water ). 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 9:28am

Jon, hard piping out of the water is something that I have considered as well. I considered it as a long term fix as compared to the short term (as I am now considering it) of the hose clamps. However, those lines that will not be directly submerged or exposed will be clamped.

And galvanized was never in the scope of things. I work with this stuff enough to know better. But, with my track record here lately.... I don't know!

Thanks!



Edited by Carl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 11:57am
Here is something I've done with cable/zip ties. Take the tie and place it around the hose on the fitting and pull it tight. Then pull off the hose and carefully tighten the tie one more click. Push the hose back on the fitting and then try to pull it off. If it comes off tighten the tie one more click and...you get the idea. Since ties are so cheap it's no big deal if you get it too tight just cut it off and start over. No rust, no worries mate!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 1:31pm

Mark, again your "Pioneering" input amazes me especially with the obvious.

However, I am still not an advocate of zip ties holding pressurized lines to barbs. It makes me all queezy inside. And after last night, I just might break out the welding torch, super glue, nail gun and duct tape!

In Syracuse

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 1:34pm
on the plus side, it'll only shoot water until the sump's empty ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 1:54pm

Originally posted by Carl Carl wrote:

And after last night, I just might break out the welding torch, super glue, nail gun and duct tape!

Woah dude, hold on now.  I mean welding torch I can see, but do you really think you need the power of duct tape?  I mean it can't be that big of an issue is it?  Duct tape may be overkill, I would stick with the welding torch and maybe add maybe even add some auto-repair bondo. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2003 at 2:33pm
Adam, that's a good point. Thanks for talking me down man. You're right, duct tape is a forever thing. Thanks...
In Syracuse

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