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Suzy 
Guest
Joined: January 03 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 7377
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 Topic: Insulting each other?
Posted: April 11 2007 at 7:07am |
Hey, guys! I had this idea: What if, instead of taking pot shots at each other, we aim our insults at this guy: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17560
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Shane H
Presidency
Joined: March 09 2003
Location: Brigham City
Status: Offline
Points: 7921
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Posted: April 11 2007 at 9:22am |
Suzy,
I deleted the cigarette ad.
Sorry.
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JS
Guest
Joined: April 12 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 222
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 4:34am |
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Suzy, I just had to comment on this topic. I find it ironic that you complained in another topic that we call each other "dumb" and "used to be friends" yet it seems every political post you make divides this club even further. I could care less if you are in the presidency or that you have been on this board for 4 years or that you have over 6000 posts, I don't think that you are acting in the best interest of this club. This club is supposed to be here to promote responsibility/education of marine hobbbyists and to support the hobby of reefkeeping. Everything you promote is political right down to your avatar. I have even seen you make political posts in the BUY/SELL/TRADE forum. I have nothing against you as a person and everyone is entitled to their views/opinions, but I think as a member of the Presidency you have an even greater responsibility to try and unite this club and not divide it. I just fear that those who are new to the board could get scared off before they even have a chance to experience all of the great things that WMAS has to offer. If you choose to continue your political posts that is your decision. I just think they should be under appropriate topics. I think we are all still friends at WMAS.
Edited by JS - April 14 2007 at 10:42pm
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Be careful who watches your tank! http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27846
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Suzy
Guest
Joined: January 03 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 7377
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 8:34am |
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I have been thinking about this for a while. At this point, I agree with you. The presidency should speak with one voice. Our club is a conservative club, from a conservative area and my posts should reflect that. Dividing our club is not what I want.
Thank you for your insight.
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Dion Richins
Presidency
Joined: April 03 2005
Location: Farmington
Status: Offline
Points: 11664
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 9:15am |
Suzy, I believe you should be you. You have view points that are just as valid as mine. If there wasn't differing thoughts we wouldn't be any better than Iraq was under Saddam. I respect you as a person as well as all you have done for this club. I would hate for you to change the way you respond to things just to be "Politically Correct". I will never bend that way and I would hope you wouldn't either.
This has been on my mind as well. Maybe the best thing to do is for All of us to leave the political debates out of the forum all together. Off topic or otherwise. Like Jason said WE Are All Friends Under The Banner Of Fish.(what a bunch of geeks) WE All Have Good Knowledge To Share, And I For One Love To Learn from your experiences and others.
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Debbles
Guest
Joined: January 07 2007
Location: West Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 3614
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 9:28am |
I just posted this on another post but it looks like it might fit here too. http://acomplaintfreeworld.org/ I personally don't get into the political stuff but I'm not going to complain if other people want to. I just choose not to participate in that post. I agree with Dion. And Suzy, I say "Be yourself".
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Suzy
Guest
Joined: January 03 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 7377
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 10:22am |
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I think Jason is right. This is not the place to me to express views like that. I do think it is different on other sites. It would be appropriate on Eric Bornemans site, or RC, but not here. It just alienates people.
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chris.rogers
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: Washington DC
Status: Offline
Points: 1553
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 12:44pm |
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He has a point to a point-- no pun intended.
The off-topic section is for non-reef related issues. Healthy political discussion, even when it's prone to be heated, is good. Haven't you come away with a greater respect for Scott? I'm sure he has for you as well.
I would agree with Dion in that you shouldn't have to stifle your speech because it's divisive. I think the subject of politics is divisive, regardless of what side of the spectrum you're on. Your no more guilty of being divisive than anyone else who participates in those threads. It's just a by-product of taking a firm stand. No shame in that.
Then again, as a presidency member it complicates things. I personally think it's possible to separate Suzy the member of the WMAS presidency from Suzy the Liberal Lady of WMAS.
Your call to make, obviously, but I think you should know that I always took what you said with a grain of salt, and I don't think less of you as a serving member of the WMAS presidency for your posts.
After all, infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
Edited by chris.rogers - April 14 2007 at 12:47pm
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Ils sont fous, ces Romains!
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Will Spencer
Admin Group
Joined: September 04 2003
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 6799
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 2:34pm |
I hope that everyone on the board understands that most of the stuff that is posted by those of us in the presidency is not in representation of what WMAS stands for. We are each entitled to our own opinion and views, but that does not make it the opinion of WMAS, just of Will, Shane, Adam, Suzy or whomever it may be. If the club does have or makes a policy it will most likely be posted by Shane in a separate topic stating "WMAS policy is..." As you will notice there is VERY little of this type of post. WMAS tries to make policy on as few things as possible and we are not in the business of telling anyone what to think or believe.
The following is not my opinion, but is WMAS policy. Actually it is our creed as stated in our bylaws. I believe this is one of the few, (and possibly the only, someonce correct me if I'm wrong,) actual written policies or beliefs/opinions of our club.
"The WASATCH MARINE AQUARIUM SOCIETY, Founded in 1995, is a non-profit organization dedicated to the support of the hobby of marine aquarium keeping. We believe in conservation of coral reefs and support efforts to manage the reefs to obtain a sustainable harvest and by promoting the captive breeding of marine creatures wherever possible. We believe in developing as natural as possible marine environments for the specimens we maintain. We promote the responsibility and education of the marine hobbyist."
Other than this I can't find anything that says the club has an opinion on anything else.
So please don't take the stuff those of us as presidency members post as WMAS "Truth." We each have our own opion and there is nothing wrong with either having that opinion or voicing that opinion however unpopular our opinion might be.
I think it would be a shame for Suzy to stop posting her opinion here on the board and try to conform to what "everyone else" thinks. I personally don't agree with her that Seahorses are the greatest sea creature ever, but If she want to post that opinion on this board it is fine by me and I still count her as one of my best friends in the WMAS. I personally like Tangs and Angels best, but to each their own. 
Edited by Will Spencer - April 14 2007 at 2:43pm
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Dion Richins
Presidency
Joined: April 03 2005
Location: Farmington
Status: Offline
Points: 11664
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 3:50pm |
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Nicely said Will.
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bbeck4x4
Guest
Joined: June 22 2005
Location: Spanish Fork
Status: Offline
Points: 2378
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 4:35pm |
I myself count Suzy as one of my friends, we may disagree on some small merit of political difference, that for me does not change, she is still a great friend. 
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Family Portraits /Google trusted Photographer for Google Maps for Businesses
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JS
Guest
Joined: April 12 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 222
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 8:19pm |
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Maybe I missed something but it sounds like from the responses some may have missunderstood what I was getting at. I don't think that Suzy should change who she is or conform to others on this board. No one should have to change who they are to participate on this board. Everyone has a right to their beliefs/views and opinions. I also don't see anything wrong with starting political threads in the off topic forum. Like Suzy told me before, those who want to participate can, those who don't want to can stay away. I do have a problem with a reef hobby related thread being hijacked by all of this political debate. You shouldn't have to change who you are to post responsibly. I know many of you have been on this board for a very long time. Many of you know each other and understand where each person is coming from. All the same there are many new members that are coming here for the reef hobby aspect of the board and may be discouraged when they see their thread hijacked by political debate. Whether you like it or not that "Presidency" title some of you advertise with your name carries certain responsibilities with it and people will look closely at what this presidency is doing and saying when they are participating in WMAS. People pay more attention to things when it is stated by the presidency and why shouldn't they. I for one assume someone who has the "presidency" title is very dedicated to this club and it's causes.
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Be careful who watches your tank! http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27846
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GARFVolunteer
Guest
Joined: September 28 2004
Location: God's Country
Status: Offline
Points: 763
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 10:05pm |
I enjoy a health debate on a lot of things. Conservative vs. liberal, republican vs. democrat, pro life vs. pro abortion, VHO vs. crappy MH, plenum vs. DSB, BB vs. kitty litter, etc. Politically Suzy and I probably don't agree on very much, but I am always happy to see her and will have more than one pink coral for her to take home if she feels like visiting Idaho on May 5th (or any other time)
Thanks,
Scott
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President Idaho Marine Aquarium Society
A fair and biased reef hobbyist
"How do you make poor people rich by making rich people poor" Rush Limbaugh on Obama taxes
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JS
Guest
Joined: April 12 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 222
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Posted: April 14 2007 at 11:41pm |
 Will Spencer wrote:
I hope that everyone on the board understands that most of the stuff that is posted by those of us in the presidency is not in representation of what WMAS stands for. We are each entitled to our own opinion and views, but that does not make it the opinion of WMAS, just of Will, Shane, Adam, Suzy or whomever it may be. If the club does have or makes a policy it will most likely be posted by Shane in a separate topic stating "WMAS policy is..." As you will notice there is VERY little of this type of post. WMAS tries to make policy on as few things as possible and we are not in the business of telling anyone what to think or believe.
"So please don't take the stuff those of us as presidency members post as WMAS "Truth." We each have our own opion and there is nothing wrong with either having that opinion or voicing that opinion however unpopular our opinion might be.
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I'm not saying that everything the presidency says must be taken as truth. I am also not saying that people shouldn't express opinions just because they are unpopular or not. I am just saying that we need to be more responsible about what we are posting under what topics. I don't think the presidency should speak with one voice. It keeps everyone on their toes. We would be a pretty lame club if everyone had the same opinion and their definitely wouldn't be any growth. Your political affiliation should not even matter in this hobby. Personally I don't care if a frag is liberal or conservative, they are all welcome in my tank!
Are members of the presidency representatives of WMAS? When you go to IMAC or other reef conventions do you let people know you are in the WMAS presidency or respresentatives of WMAS? Do you think that they form opinions of our club by your actions or how you interact with them? If someone works at Best Buy wearing a Best Buy name tag and treats customers poorly doesn't that reflect on Best Buy the company?
I too think that Suzy should not change or conform to what everyone else thinks. I also think she should stand up for her opinion or what she believes. I even think she should put her avatar back. No one should apologize for who they are. I just don't think it is appropriate to turn any given topic into a political debate. I think this dead horse has been beaten enough.
Edited by JS - April 15 2007 at 2:00am
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Be careful who watches your tank! http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27846
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Suzy
Guest
Joined: January 03 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 7377
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Posted: April 15 2007 at 8:36am |
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Thanks, guys. I appreciate your kind words. But, I think our site has changed over the last few months, and I am more than than willing to do my part to let it go back to the calm (albeit boring?), friendly site that is was in January.
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Adam Blundell
Presidency
Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Davis County
Status: Offline
Points: 18526
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Posted: April 15 2007 at 9:54am |
Suzy wrote:
Our club is a conservative club, from a conservative area and my posts should reflect that.
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Not that is matters (because I think we should avoid controversy) but this part isn't exactly true. The club founders and original bylaws were not conservative. They were environmental. If the club ever had come out in support of a presidential candidate I don't think it would have been a republican nor a democrat. Probably a green party candidate.
So this really isn't a conservative club (wasn't meant to be) and it really isn't a conservative area (I think Mayor Anderson and his approval rating show that). What it is, is a group concerned with environmental concerns and making healthier ecosystems.
Adam
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Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
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Adam Blundell
Presidency
Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Davis County
Status: Offline
Points: 18526
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Posted: April 15 2007 at 9:56am |
Suzy- I actually prefer the calm, and yes boring, club.
Adam
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Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
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Suzy
Guest
Joined: January 03 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 7377
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Posted: April 15 2007 at 11:05am |
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Me, too.
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Will Spencer
Admin Group
Joined: September 04 2003
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 6799
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Posted: April 15 2007 at 5:09pm |
JS wrote:
I'm not saying that everything the presidency says must be taken as truth. I am also not saying that people shouldn't express opinions just because they are unpopular or not. I am just saying that we need to be more responsible about what we are posting under what topics. I don't think the presidency should speak with one voice. It keeps everyone on their toes. |
I completely agree that those of us that are presidency members should conduct ourselves in such a way as to make a good impression of the club. I was simply trying to remind everyone that when we give our opinion we are not speaking for the club. At the same time we should understand that others, especially those who do not know us as well as some, might take what we say with a little more weight. This is one reason I try to offer advice only when I really think I know what I'm talking about or at least state that "this is what I think, but I really don't know for sure".
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Jamison
Guest
Joined: March 19 2004
Location: Layton, Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 1707
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Posted: April 15 2007 at 9:56pm |
Will Spencer wrote:
JS wrote:
I'm not saying that everything the presidency says must be taken as truth. I am also not saying that people shouldn't express opinions just because they are unpopular or not. I am just saying that we need to be more responsible about what we are posting under what topics. I don't think the presidency should speak with one voice. It keeps everyone on their toes. |
I completely agree that those of us that are presidency members should conduct ourselves in such a way as to make a good impression of the club. I was simply trying to remind everyone that when we give our opinion we are not speaking for the club. At the same time we should understand that others, especially those who do not know us as well as some, might take what we say with a little more weight. This is one reason I try to offer advice only when I really think I know what I'm talking about or at least state that "this is what I think, but I really don't know for sure". |
It is interesting that this was brought up. I never would have realized how much more difficult it is to type a post as a presidency member than it was as a regular member of WMAS. I actually post less now than I used to, and you don'teven want to know how many posts I write that never get submitted. I do feel a little more responsibility to the club and do try a little harder to be politically correct now. That's why hardly any of my posts are ever serious anymore. It's nice to know that club members understand that, and hopefully you will offer us a tiny bit of leeway on our off days.
That said, even with all the drama we have drummed up this year, I have to say that this message board has been phenomenal. I do occasionally frequent other boards, and I assure you that their moderators are a lot busier than ours. I think the only rule we should all officially abide by, is that we show others the kind of respect we prefer to be shown. Respectfully pursued heated debates have never been a bane to the club and can definitely make for an interesting read.
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Insulting each other?
