Utah Reefs Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Black Ich and UV?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Black Ich and UV?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
ntrider View Drop Down
Guest
Guest


Joined: December 20 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ntrider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Black Ich and UV?
    Posted: April 17 2007 at 4:38pm
Since this is my first post I would like to say hello and that I really enjoy this site.  This is my first time with saltwater and I have relied on this site for a lot of answers to my questions, can't get enough of the search button.
 
My first tank was a 10 gal that was setup in Sept. 2006, with some nudging from a friend to go sw and not fw.  After enjoying the 10 for 6 months I went bigger to a 55 gal and thats where I have been since feb. My first post will be one about my orange shoulder tang and Black Ich. From what I have searched, this is one website that I found, http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/compldiagnodisease/a/aa041701.htm. I do have some pics but It looks like I cant post them on this forum. If their is a way to please let me know.
 
I have read about doing a freshwater dip follow by formalin treatment or flat worm exit; but I was wondering about UV lights.  I believe I have read that UV is excellent for controlling ich, but I was wanting to make sure that white and black ich are the same, as in flatworms,  and will be treated the same with the UV sterilization.
 
TIA
Steve
Back to Top
Will Spencer View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: September 04 2003
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 6799
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2007 at 11:32pm
Steve, White and Black ick are not the same.  They are different bugs.  But they act very much alike.
 
White Ick is a Ciliate protozoan called Cryptocaryon irritans.  It's symptoms are small white spots on the body surface and fins.
 
Black Ick is also a Ciliate protozoan, but it is usually a Paravortex species.  It's symptoms are Small black spots on the body surface often combined with loss of color.
 
Both can be treated with Freshwater dips, Formalin Baths or reduced salinity.  Cleaner animals such as Cleaner Shrimp or Cleaner Gobies can also be helpful for both of them.  Since they are both protozoan, the UV sterilizer would probably also be helpful with Black Ick as it is with "normal" Ick.
 
There is a great article about diseases of a marine tank called "Quarantine: A Necessary Nuisance" in the latest issue of Aquarium Fish International.  This is a new issue so you should be able to pick it up at Petsmart or you favorite Newstand.
 
As for Flatworm Exit, I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but Flatworms and Ick are two totally different things.  I have never heard of treating Ick with Flatworm Exit, and I would guess it would not be very effective.
 
Good Luck!  I hope your Orange Shoulder Tang live a long and healthy life.  They are beautiful fish.


Edited by Will Spencer - April 17 2007 at 11:34pm
Back to Top
kgwilliams View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kgwilliams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2007 at 6:14pm
I think that a UV sterilizer is a must when it comes to keeping tangs.  If I were you I would get one, and I would go with an 18w instead of a 9w, even though they say 9w's will do for a 55 gal I think you'd be better off going with an 18w.  I recently had to upgrade my 9w to 18w's on my 75gal because the 9w just wasn't cutting it.
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
Back to Top
ntrider View Drop Down
Guest
Guest


Joined: December 20 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ntrider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2007 at 5:28pm
Thanks for the replies, Will and kg.  I found some more articles about freshwater and formalin bathing.  Some go into details about what to look for with the fish and give concentration numbers for the formalin bath.  I have been using kents garlic on the food and I have a 36watt UV ordered, so hopefully it will come on saturday. 
 
Before I attempt the fw and formalin bath just want to clarify a couple things, this way I dont have to put anymore stress on the fish then I have too.   The quarantine/hospital tank, fw bath tank, and formalin bath tank are seperate.  I am not suppose to put formalin in the quarantine tank, or in the fw, correct?  In the articles I don't remember them saying but with the formalin bath is it suppose to have a mild salinity like around 1.01?
final concern is how concern should I be with my other fish, (2 clowns, blue devil, 6 line, scotter, eng gobi), getting ich?  Like can i leave the tangs ( I have two now with ich, the orange shoulder and scopas tang, in the hospital tank for couple weeks to give the UV some time to take care of the ich or should I just catch all the fish and put them in there?


Edited by ntrider - April 19 2007 at 5:28pm
Back to Top
Dutch View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: August 10 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2007 at 5:44pm
I bring my Powder Blue to hang out with your fish steve maybe they can get better together...haha! Dang Tangs!
 
Dutch
Back to Top
utahtrotter View Drop Down
Guest
Guest


Joined: November 21 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote utahtrotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2007 at 7:00pm
Hook up the UV and wait a few days and the ick should be gone. My powder blue was covered and even lumpy when I changed from a 9w to an 18w. Within a couple of days the ick was gone and it's never been back. I wouldn't do anything else until you try the UV. jmo 
Diana Aldana
Mapleton, Utah
Back to Top
TNaisbitt View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 04 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TNaisbitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2007 at 7:08pm
I am trying to learn from you guys as well, so hopefully this will come out as constructive rather than criticism.  I'm coming at this from the perspective of trying to reduce the causes of the ich, rather than trying  to cure the tang since I don't have any experience dealing with ich.  (knocking on wood as I type)

Isn't ich a disease that takes advantage of when the fish is stressed?  I am far from a tang expert, but my marine aquarium fish handbook always lists tangs as needing larger tanks.  A contributor to stress is having too large (or too many) a fish in a smaller tank, correct?  I don't know how big your tangs are, but could the ich be caused (or contributed to) by the fact that two tangs are in a 55 gal tank and it is just too stressful of an environment? 

I guess my worry is that you are treating the ich perfectly, but a potential problem with the size of the tank will still exist afterwards, encouraging another ich outbreak and a constant battle with it over time.

There are lots of better experts on this board than me, but a 55 gal. aquarium with 2 tangs kind of sent off warning bells in my mind.  Hopefully I'm wrong.

Good luck!  You've come to the right place by posting on the board.  I hope everything turns out fine!


"Water which is too pure has no fish."

90 Gal Reef, 12Gal Nano Reef
West Jordan, UT
Back to Top
utahtrotter View Drop Down
Guest
Guest


Joined: November 21 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote utahtrotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2007 at 7:34pm
I'm pretty new myself (1 1/2 years) and it's true that ick can be caused by stress, but I never had any ick problems until I bought my powder blue ick-magnet. I was told he would be an ick magnet, and all the garlic in the world didn't do what a UV sterilizer did. I think you can get by with a higher fish load if you have a great protein skimmer, feed alot to make everyone happy, and keep a clean tank with water changes every couple weeks. So I have a blue, yellow, & powder blue tang, potters leopard wrasse, flame angel, two anthias, clown, cleaner wrasse, foxface ( now that guy can poop) mandarin goby, couple of shrimp and stars, down to the crabs and snails. Besides, my husband likes the fish better than the coral so I have to keep him happy
 
Diana Aldana
Mapleton, Utah
Back to Top
ntrider View Drop Down
Guest
Guest


Joined: December 20 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ntrider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2007 at 8:04pm

dutch, bring him on over, it will be like taking the kids to the friends house with chickenpox to play.LOL

Thanks again for the replies I too was wondering about the size of the tank with two tangs causing stress.  I have watched them since day one and I haven't notice any signs of stress.  They swim with each other, they both eat tons of food, and lately they both pester the cleaner shrimp to clean them.  I appreciate the reply and didn't take it as critizism at all.
 
I do eventually want to get more tangs, I really like the powder brown/blue and the achilies, so with most sw hobbyist you always want to go bigger so hopefully in a couple months I can get something bigger.
 
I will keep this updated and let you know more after the UV is hooked up about the ich situation.  Is 36 watt too much for a 55?  just wondering a lot of people are saying 18.
 
Steve


Edited by ntrider - April 19 2007 at 8:13pm
Back to Top
Mike Savage View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2005
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 19173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2007 at 8:12pm
Beautiful tank Diana!
 
Mike


Back to Top
Dion Richins View Drop Down
Presidency
Presidency
Avatar

Joined: April 03 2005
Location: Farmington
Status: Offline
Points: 11664
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dion Richins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2007 at 8:28pm
Ill second that.
 
Realize that the powder tangs are difficult to keep. If it were me I would put the tangs in a hospital tank and copper them for a week. In the meantime I would clean my tank, do a good water change and relieve anything that might cause any unneeded stress.
 
I haven't had an issue with ick for several years now. I do run uv's on most of my tanks but contribute my fishes health to good skimming, feeding a mixture of frozen foods soaked in vitamin c and garlic every day.
Bad "censored" Cabinets
Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC)
Back to Top
Will Spencer View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: September 04 2003
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 6799
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2007 at 11:00pm
I have never used a FW bath or a fomalin bath.  Several Pres. members discussed this today while we were together and came to the conclusion that we feel these are last ditch efforts to try to save a fish that is about to die.  Both are very stressful to the fish.
 
I agree with Dion, a hospital tank with copper is probably a far better solution. 
 
Once you have the UV sterilizer up and running a few days you should be good.  I have a 40Watt Sterilizer and it wiped the little bit of ick on my 7 tangs out in 2 days on a 180 gallon tank.  Once yours is up and running I would not worry about the other fish.  You might be as well off at that point leaving the tangs in the main tank at that point as well.
Back to Top
kgwilliams View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kgwilliams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2007 at 10:17pm
Ich is caused by stress, poor water conditions, and malnutrition.  The biggest point of garlic is to get the fish to eat and therefor increase it's immune system.  Doing a FW dip, or any other type of dip is not going to cure your problem.  The tank itself still has ich.  This would mean you would dip the fish, which stresses it out even more, then you would be putting it back in the ich water.  I've learned these things from experience.  I FW dipped a wrasse and put it back in and it never even lost any ich! 
 
I would keep feeding garlic and if you think they can last until the UV gets there I would just leave them in the tank.  I've seen some fish live for weeks with ich.  I don't think that there is a limit on how many watts of UV you can have.  The more the better in my opinion.  36w's on a 55gal is going to do great! 
 
I think you could still get a couple more tangs in that 55, but the achilles is one of the hardest to keep!  So beware!  Good luck!
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.297 seconds.