| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
larhalli 
Guest
Joined: March 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 450
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Election Committee
Posted: November 30 2007 at 11:03am |
|
I think there should be an election committee made up of two or three paid members, individuals with integrity that are not running for office. These individuals would count the absentee ballots and the ballots at the meeting. And would report and decide on inappropriate or faulty ballots. This would be an honest and fair way to finalize our elections and would eliminate any impropriety.
|
|
Larry Halliday
West Jordan
|
 |
Adam Blundell
Presidency
Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Davis County
Status: Offline
Points: 18526
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 11:11am |
Interesting... I don't think there is any reason for concern but if a club member thinks so then we should address it.
Although Mike Savage is running, would you be against him counting it up? Is there anyone you would trust more than Mike?
After the meeting the box will be taken to dinner and counted up... the absentee ballots (all four of them or so  ) will be added and right off the bat Heil (assuming he wins against nobody) will know who is in the presidency.
Well somewhat... the president and vp will still have the option to appoint more pres members to join the voted in members.
If you are concerned feel free to hang around after the meeting.
Adam
|
|
Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
|
|
larhalli
Guest
Joined: March 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 450
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 11:25am |
|
I have been involved in many elections, some very political. Election committees have made those final results less combative. Those members running should be allowed to be present at the counting of the ballots or at least have some representative. I just don't think it is appropriate to have a person who is running for an office count the ballots. It leaves questions in the minds of those who may not get the votes they thought they should.
As a side note yes I trust Mike and many others who are running. I am sure there are people I trust more but they may not be members. I just think there may be a need for an election procedure that should eliminate improprieties.
|
|
Larry Halliday
West Jordan
|
|
Shane H
Presidency
Joined: March 09 2003
Location: Brigham City
Status: Offline
Points: 7921
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 11:29am |
Hmmm,
Last year we did not count the ballots for a couple of days. We wanted to make sure everyone got a chance to vote. Jake printed and placed the abesentee ballots in the box the night of the meeting. There were very few - and none came in after the meeting.
I believe I am an individual with integrity and I trust Silcox and now Will explicitly. Unless there is someone running against the president, I don't see a need to form a committee to count votes. The number of votes each candidate gets remains confidential, whether they win or not. Last year I kept all the ballots for about 3 months in case there were any questions.
If there is some question about ballot tampering or impropriety I would be very interested to hear more.
|
|
Adam Blundell
Presidency
Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Davis County
Status: Offline
Points: 18526
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 11:32am |
I think that is a great idea. I'm just wondering who should be on that committee. Right off Mike was the first person that came to my mind. Next up... Scott Morell since he is an outside member.... maybe Jon Finch since he isn't running.
I can tell you that 10 years ago we had some very close races. Two people really competing for president and the presidency positions were also quite close. Like 23 votes to 18 votes or so.
But in the last 5 years or so... not much competition. I've pretty well been able to predict who was going to get the votes before we even handed out the ballots.
Adam
ps- but every year someone will surprise me, so you never know
|
|
Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
|
|
Debbles
Guest
Joined: January 07 2007
Location: West Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 3614
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 11:37am |
As someone that is running for presidency council I have to say I have no problem at all with the way the votes are counted. You guys have my trust 100%.
Deb  Yabba Debbie Doo!
|
|
Yes Mikey...I still have fins!!!
|
|
larhalli
Guest
Joined: March 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 450
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 11:40am |
|
I think the number of votes each candidate gets should be posted whether they win or not. There should not be any secrets. Just another reason to have an election committee. Why do they need to be kept confidential? Is there some way a person would know who did not vote or who voted for them on the individual ballot?
|
|
Larry Halliday
West Jordan
|
|
ssilcox
Guest
Joined: November 17 2003
Location: Sandy
Status: Offline
Points: 3428
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 12:38pm |
Keep them confidential. Some of the council is appointed, some are elected. I would rather appoint someone that is going to kick butt and put in a lot of time in the presidency vs. someone that got elected and didnt do a darn thing (this happened many times in the last few years). I dont think they need to know if they are popular enough in the club to be elected vs. appointed.
I am just wondering where this came from. Why all the sudden distrust in the system?
|
|
chk4tix
Guest
Joined: April 06 2007
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 4320
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 12:56pm |
|
Are there going to be the chance for absentee ballats? I would love to vote but I have prior obligations so I will not be at the meeting.
|
|
Original Crappy Reef Club Member #2
|
|
sukie
Guest
Joined: March 16 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4386
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 1:00pm |
 chk4tix wrote:
Are there going to be the chance for absentee ballats? I would love to vote but I have prior obligations so I will not be at the meeting. |
Ck this thread out http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22143
|
|
|
|
Debbles
Guest
Joined: January 07 2007
Location: West Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 3614
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 1:29pm |
ssilcox wrote:
Keep them confidential. I dont think they need to know if they are popular enough in the club to be elected vs. appointed.
|
I agree!
Deb Yabba Debbie Doo!
|
|
Yes Mikey...I still have fins!!!
|
|
larhalli
Guest
Joined: March 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 450
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 1:33pm |
|
I just made the suggestion as a recommendation. There is no distrust in the system. I just think the system is not perfect. Why even have an election if the positions are appointed? Why don't we just vote for a President? Why doesn't the President just appoint who he thinks will make a good council? Or is that what happens anyway? I agree the President should have people that are willing to work for this club. There are people who will do a good job and I am sure there are a few who may not. So why have an election if no one knows the results? How do you know if someone is not going to do a good job unless given the chance? A lot of times, new blood are new ideas.
|
|
Larry Halliday
West Jordan
|
|
Shane H
Presidency
Joined: March 09 2003
Location: Brigham City
Status: Offline
Points: 7921
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 2:01pm |
Larry,
You make some great points. Don't think the election is somehow rigged. The top four vote getters become part of the presidency, others are appointed by the president and vice president as necessary. You may notice that the number of presidency members varies year to year, whereas the number we vote for (4) does not. Traditionally, appointees have been pulled from those who accepted their nominations because it is assumed that they want to be more involved. The reason I don't publish the actual vote count is to avoid hurting anyone's feelings. If the results remain confidential, then everyone on the presidency council should consider themselves the top vote getter.
In fact, last year Silcox and I (who ran unapposed) did not get the highest vote count! I appreciate your concerns and also your recommendation. If you'd like to be involved in the counting of votes, I am more than open to that, but we are not going to post the vote totals per candidate.
BTW, your last sentence couldn't be more true!  |
|
larhalli
Guest
Joined: March 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 450
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 2:21pm |
|
I apologize if I offended anyone by making this recommendation. I am not the most trusting person in the world. I was involved with unions and was a union officer for most of my life until I retired. I just think the election process is something we should not take for granted. Maybe those who are not as popular and who are appointed need to know that they need to crawl out of their shell and meet people. If people don't do a good job, they need to be replaced with someone who will. I believe the President should be able to make that decision and we as members should support him in those decisions. If we don't agree then we must wait till next election and vote accordingly. I kind of feel like my votes don't really mean anything cause it doesn't really matter because I am sure that the President has already made up his mind on who he is going to appoint from the list of candidates. That is not why we have elections.
|
|
Larry Halliday
West Jordan
|
|
Debbles
Guest
Joined: January 07 2007
Location: West Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 3614
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 2:25pm |
Votes do count. The top four vote getters are elected.
|
|
Yes Mikey...I still have fins!!!
|
|
larhalli
Guest
Joined: March 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 450
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 2:46pm |
|
The top four are elected, that's great but what of the other ten? Are they all appointed? If so why have an election? If there are only going to be ten positions then maybe the top ten vote getters should make up the council. I would hate to be the number 5 vote getter and not be appointed and possibly be knocked out of position by someone who may have not gotten any votes and was appointed by the President. My feeling is that too much discretional privilege leads to impropriety.
|
|
Larry Halliday
West Jordan
|
|
larhalli
Guest
Joined: March 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 450
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: November 30 2007 at 3:03pm |
[QUOTE=Adam Blundell]
But in the last 5 years or so... not much competition. I've pretty well been able to predict who was going to get the votes before we even handed out the ballots.
Adam,
I bet we could do it again this year. You write down your picks and I'll write down mine and then we can compare them after the meeting.
|
|
Larry Halliday
West Jordan
|
|
Summertop
Presidency
Joined: August 28 2003
Location: South Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 3270
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: December 03 2007 at 2:28pm |
Larry,
I understand your concerns. I suggest you take Shane up on his offer to help count.
I do have a couple of points I would like to make...
1. The presidency does not control your work, your pay, or your lively hood. They are simply there to make sure the club is a benefit to the members. If it is not a benefit, people don't join/come to meetings.
2. As for elected vs. appointed positions. That is very common. Even as high up as the President of the USA. He gets elected then appoints his cabinat. The WMAS president MUST be able to make appointments. Take the job of webmaster. The club needs someone with the ability to do it. Same for treasurer.
3. I have been in the presidency for a few years. I have seen presidency members drop out. The president must be able to appoint replacements if needed.
4. To this day, I don't know if I was elected or appointed. If there were multiple candidates for President, I would like to see vote breakdown for that. But, I don't really care about seeing it for council members.
5. I have not talked to anyone that was offended by your request. EVERYONE in the presidency loves it when members care enough about the club to make suggestions and requests. Regardless the outcome of THIS request...please keep making them. I wish more members would voice their desires for the club. Obviously we wouldn't be able to implement every request, but if just ONE was implemented, it would be worth while. Again, thanks for the request...keep them comming!
|
|
===========
Shawn Winterbottom
|
|
cl2ysta1
Guest
Joined: October 02 2007
Location: Cedar City, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 4203
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: December 03 2007 at 3:40pm |
it is a valid point. People might feel more inclined to vote for someone they had to email their votes to or knew they were going to be seeing the actual ballots.
=)
|
|
I <3 Boxers
Achilles tang lover
|
|
mikeden
Guest
Joined: June 17 2007
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 128
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: December 04 2007 at 1:09pm |
Larry, I agree with your concept in general, and wouldn't be opposed to it.
But on the other hand, let's not make a mountain out of mole hill. After all, it's all about having fun with our hobby, conversing with those who share the same, and spreading information. I've only been a member of this board and keeping saltwater for a short time, but this community has been a huge help, and a source of enjoyment for me. I'm extremely busy, and hardly have time to maintain my tank, and I know a lot of others are in the same boat. Whoever is able to carve out the time to manage this... my hat is off to you, and you get my vote! The current presidency has done a great job, in my humble opinion, and the current voting system seems to have worked. Although not knowing them all personally very well, based on what I've seen of their performance thus far, they have my trust.
Just my 2 cents. 
Maybe we should put Hugo Chavez in charge? 
|
|
150G Reef
|
|
