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Shane H 
Presidency
Joined: March 09 2003
Location: Brigham City
Status: Offline
Points: 7921
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 Topic: Mandarin Help
Posted: September 25 2008 at 12:02am |
I'm going to close this thread. It is tiresome that threads that may lead to some unique information being shared, instead turn into an advertisement for breeder talk and a bash on this MB.
Suzy Applegarth and Amie Hancey have started a message board called breeder talk - click on their signature lines for a link - I encourage everyone to visit other forums to get as much information about the hobby. But what I won't continue to tolerate are the insults about the WMAS on our own message board. Use breed talk to bad mouth utahreefs, don't do it here.
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Shane H
Presidency
Joined: March 09 2003
Location: Brigham City
Status: Offline
Points: 7921
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 11:37pm |
Edit - PM instead.
Edited by Shane H - September 24 2008 at 11:40pm
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Dion Richins
Presidency
Joined: April 03 2005
Location: Farmington
Status: Offline
Points: 11664
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 11:25pm |
 Suzy wrote:
I am confused as to why a private message was posted on the board to begin with. If this person wanted all of our opinions, he would have posted.
Hey, Adams mysterious pm guy! You can post on www.utahbreedertalk.com with no fear of flaming! Our MB is moderated and no flaming is allowed. Join us for a friendly discussion! We can help you have a healthy environment for fish, and help you find ways to make your tank strong for many fish. You might even feel confident enough one day to start breeding mandarins! It has been done and we can help you!
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Suzy, I'm afraid your responses to the other Mandarin thread and the discussion on Moorish Idols is what he/she is trying to avoid. "I'm Just Saying"
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Suzy
Guest
Joined: January 03 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 7377
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 11:23pm |
Adam Blundell wrote:
I think this person wants opinions... maybe not your opinion, but more opinions in general |
Well, I guess I won't offer my opinion then! I guess you posted it here to get Marks opinion? Great idea! He is the smartest WMAS reefer around! Really, mysterious PM and phone guy, you can get great advice on our forum with no fear of flaming. Everyone is really nice and everyone leaves their egos at work!
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Adam Blundell
Presidency
Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Davis County
Status: Offline
Points: 18526
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 10:13pm |
I am confused as to why a private message was posted on the board to begin with. If this person wanted all of our opinions, he would have posted.
I think this person wants opinions... maybe not your opinion, but more opinions in general  I spoke with them on the phone prior to starting the thread. I told them I didn't have the answer and I suggested that they get more opinions. They were hesitant to do so, so I asked again if I could just post the pm  So far I think they are getting some good replies. With any luck they'll get the little guy eating frozen foods.
Adam
edit- ps don't shoot the messenger, I'm just trying to help them ask their questions
Edited by Adam Blundell - September 24 2008 at 10:21pm
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Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
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Suzy
Guest
Joined: January 03 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 7377
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 9:53pm |
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I am confused as to why a private message was posted on the board to begin with. If this person wanted all of our opinions, he would have posted.
Hey, Adams mysterious pm guy! You can post on www.utahbreedertalk.com with no fear of flaming! Our MB is moderated and no flaming is allowed. Join us for a friendly discussion! We can help you have a healthy environment for fish, and help you find ways to make your tank strong for many fish. You might even feel confident enough one day to start breeding mandarins! It has been done and we can help you!
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Adam Blundell
Presidency
Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Davis County
Status: Offline
Points: 18526
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 9:50pm |
Thought this would be interesting to post. Ever wonder why a Mandarin may be so hungry when you buy it. First, it has to compete for food at the pet store. But prior to that they aren't fed in wholesale tanks, and they can spend weeks there.
Some stores keep them in individual containers for weeks.
Other stores keep dozens if not hundreds of them in a small tank.
and the wholesalers wonder why they lose so many of them?
Adam
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Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
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Adam Blundell
Presidency
Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Davis County
Status: Offline
Points: 18526
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 9:37pm |
Bob- I myself don't know the answers to your questions. But I'm sure the tank owner is reading this so maybe they'll let me know and I'll update. I'm thinking the tank is a couple years old, the mandarin was fine for a year... probably getting skinny and finally just got skinny enough for concern. But again I haven't seen the fish, so I don't know.
John- yah I'm a good nay-sayer on this.  But in my defense I have written a couple articles showing how some people are now having success with these fish (even in nano tanks), and I did admit that someday I may be recommending them to hobbyists. But that time hasn't come yet. 
Amie- not sure why you are confused. Someone has a mandarin. It isn't doing well. They don't want people to yell at them, they don't want people telling them they should be raising food for it, or that they should be providing a refugium for it. They don't want someone to tell them all the stuff they should be doing because their way isn't correct. They thought "hey Adam has seen people keeping mandarins in all sorts of setups, he'll know what to do"
I wrote back to them "I don't know what to do, can I post your pm on the board?"
That's about it.
Adam
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Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
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PeggySue
Guest
Joined: March 09 2008
Location: Centerville
Status: Offline
Points: 224
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 9:13pm |
jpiotrowski wrote:
Go to Amie (peggysue). She has answered a lot of my questions and as I found, things only go wrong when I do it other than the way she suggests.
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Hey thanks, John.
jpiotrowski wrote:
I believe there is only one real nay-sayer!
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Agreed. That's what makes this thread so confusing.
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Famous last words, "Parks, Recreations & Tourism"
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BobC63
Admin Group
Joined: January 17 2007
Location: Lehi, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 8964
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 6:46pm |
Personally , I would need a bit more info before advising this person...
Adam didn't specify the size / age of the tank which could both be factors affecting the food supply - another possible factor is how much live rock; as without a fuge that would become the most likely "breeding ground" for the pod population to multiply...
Adam did say 'no fuge' and that there is another "pod eater" in the tank -
He also said the "skinny" Mandarin has been in there 1 year. How long has the other dragonet been in there? If it is a recent introduction (90 days or less) then food supply could be an issue. If the other dragonet was already in the tank when this person got the Mandarin - and the Mandirin was "fat" for the past 11 months and only got "skinny" very recently, then food supply may not be the issue; it could be stress, disease or some other problem.
Other questions I would ask:
- does the "skinny" Mandarin readily eat frozen or other prepared foods, or just hunt pods? same question for the other dragonet. Perhaps there has been a recent reduction in the pod supply unrelated to the Mandarin and maybe the other (still fat) dragonet adapted to eating other available foods while the "skinny" one hasn't adapted and has been starving?
- if they eat frozen / prepared foods, are there any other recent livestock introductions to note? Perhaps adding other totally unrelated fish or motile inverts to the tank may have reduced the amount of prepared foods hitting the sandbed and being available to the bottom-feeding Mandarin...? Or has the person inadvertantly added a third "pod eater" (certain wrasses, for example) and maybe doesn't realize it?
- any other non-food issues recently? (diseases, other sick or dead livestock, any water quality issues. wild temp swings, etc.) Just because Mandarins have a (well deserved) reputation for needing pods in their environment doesn't mean every time a Mandarin looks unhealthy it is automatically a feeding issue...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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kdinkel
Guest
Joined: December 06 2007
Location: Springville
Status: Offline
Points: 679
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 11:40am |
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I totally agree with everyone, but those mandarins are hard to resist. Cute little buggers!
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29 gallon reef
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cl2ysta1
Guest
Joined: October 02 2007
Location: Cedar City, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 4203
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 10:19am |
they either need to start raising copepods or rehome it to a larger MORE ESTABLISHED aquarium. I know many people have heard this a million times and we all make mistakes but....
FIND OUT ABOUT AN ANIMALS NEEDS AND SIZES BEFORE YOU PURCHASE IT!!!
We are all very knowledgeable here and that is what this board is for. Researching and getting input on saltwater tanks!
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I <3 Boxers
Achilles tang lover
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jpiotrowski
Guest
Joined: September 30 2004
Location: Tollgate Canyon
Status: Offline
Points: 923
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 8:39am |
Go to Amie (peggysue). She has answered a lot of my questions and as I found, things only go wrong when I do it other than the way she suggests.
BTW, am I wrong or was the last post about mandarins supporting aquarium care? I believe there is only one real nay-sayer!
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Sculpin
Guest
Joined: May 16 2008
Location: Kaysville
Status: Offline
Points: 1480
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Posted: September 24 2008 at 12:34am |
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I have a 235 tank that I added another scooter too. I knew it was a gamble but it is a very well established tank and I thought food would not have been the problem and I don't think it was. What was the problem though was the two scooters were always egging each other on rather then there constant search for food. So in a short period of time they both got skinny and I now have one in my fuge and one in my tank. Lessoned learned and one of them will eventually be going in my nano which is always crawling with amphipods and what not.
Good luck to whomever you are and don't be shy about posting screw ups, I make em' all the time. So what if people bash ya and I doubt they would. Almost every person that I've encountered on this forum have been nothing but cool and I'm like the noob of all noobs with tons of dumb comments... kinda like this one.
Sculpin
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PeggySue
Guest
Joined: March 09 2008
Location: Centerville
Status: Offline
Points: 224
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Posted: September 23 2008 at 11:50pm |
Whoever has a mandarin, or whoever wants to get a mandarin, feel free to contact me and I'll be glad to help you learn how to raise copepods and keep your tank full of bugs in order for them to survive. It's not a big deal, you just need to learn how to care for them.
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Famous last words, "Parks, Recreations & Tourism"
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Adam Blundell
Presidency
Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Davis County
Status: Offline
Points: 18526
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Posted: September 23 2008 at 3:56pm |
I haven't heard any updates, I'll send a pm...
Adam
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Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
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jpiotrowski
Guest
Joined: September 30 2004
Location: Tollgate Canyon
Status: Offline
Points: 923
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Posted: September 23 2008 at 2:57pm |
I agree, get him out of that tank and into a qt tank with plenty of pods. The spotted mandarin may be out competing him. How did they act together. Did he get chased by the other? Are there any other fish picking on it? The transfer to another tank IMO is the best and maybe the only way to save him. Once he is fattened up you may introduce him back, but beware of the same thing happening.
Do they eat frozen? In order to keep both (or maybe even one) you may need to introduce a refugium or work on getting them to eat frozen.
Good luck
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Adam Blundell
Presidency
Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Davis County
Status: Offline
Points: 18526
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Posted: September 22 2008 at 9:19am |
This person does a good job of asking questions, and is frequently on the board. But they purchased a fish they probably shouldn't have purchased. The "now what do I do" can be overwhelming.
edit- oh, and I do agree that maintanance free tanks is a good goal. I've seen some beautiful tanks that required no work. In fact one of the nicest tanks in our club has now gone 5 years without a water change!
Adam
Edited by Adam Blundell - September 22 2008 at 9:20am
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Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
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Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
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Posted: September 22 2008 at 9:15am |
Adam Blundell wrote:
It wouldn't be a week if something weren't wrong with one of the tanks, right??? |
This statement is worrisome. Sounds like this person could use some help. I can let my tanks go for months without having to do anything but top-off water. Even feeding is somewhat optional in my skimmerless tanks and when feeding is reduced, Coral and Anemones flourish. Scraping algae off the glass is even less of a need, when I pay no attention to my tanks. Please encourage this person to share with us directly, to be open and receive good advice that is meant to help, not to be a personal attack. I am probably the most critical of anyone here. I promise to be on my best behavior. I'm just trying to help. 
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Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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john hill
Guest
Joined: December 19 2006
Location: spanish fork
Status: Offline
Points: 1824
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Posted: September 20 2008 at 11:28pm |
i have one in a 65 but i do grow pods just for it
if they need some i can get them some and they can start growing them as well
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out with the large and in with the nano
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Mandarin Help
