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October 2008 Meeting Recap and Pics

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Adam Blundell View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 03 2008 at 9:40am
All About Sumps
Date: 10/2/08
Attendance: 65
 
This meeting was sumpthing special!
Marc Levenson (www.melevsreef.com) was our guest speaker and he came prepared with all the answers to your sump questions.  Marc is a sump expert who has developed and built dozens of sumps for all sorts of different applications.  Mark provided information on how to best make use of a sump, or how to best design a sump for a new system. 
 
Here are some of the main points from the meeting:
 
Back off and be reasonable.  Some hobbyists just want it all and don't understand the limitations of their sump.
 
All sorts of materials can work for a sump, so be creative and find what will work well for you.
 
Size does matter!  Increasing your sump size can provide many more possibilities for your tank.
 
Marc covered all sorts of design techniques including; stacking tupperware containers in the sump, silicone baffles, using eggcrate, and non rectangle designs.
 
Don't silicone in acrylic baffles!  Use silicone for glass, but not acrylic, it won't hold.
 
Don't save $3 on the silicone from Home Depot.  It isn't worth the risk.  You are saving hundreds of dollars building a sump, just spend $3 extra and buy your silicone at the pet store.
 
Refugium is best if greater than or equal to 10% of the display.  Example 100 gal aquarium should have atleast 10 gal refugium. (for more info on refugium listen to reefcast #7)
 
Marc likes snails.  He says buy a bunch and let them do their work.  Then they'll die.  That is okay, just buy more in 6 months.  Marc likes to buy the snails and then put them directly on the troubled algae area.  He buys 100 at a time every six months.  After they do their job some snails will learn to eat other foods and survive, and others will starve.
 
Split the water from your drain.  It is best to have about 75% of the drain water running to the skimmer, and the other 25% running to the refugium.  Marc mentioned this ratio several times. 
Along those same lines... Marc suggests a tank turn over of 3-5 times per hour.  That isn't very important, and slower flow is fine (may even be beneficial for retention times and for prevention of micro bubbles).  But in general around 3-5 times works well.
 
Microbubbles are not a problem in the tank... but they sure are ugly.
 
Heaters fail.  Get use to it.  Plan for it.  Don't buy a large heater.
 
There are many plumbing material options (pvc, abs, spa flex, vinyl, etc).  They all work but find what will work best in your situation (what direction does it have to go) and make sure you buy the right glue for the right material.
 
Say no to check valves.  Only you can help prevent check valves.  Friends don't let friends use check valves.
 
Chaetomorpha... not bad.
 
Caulerpa... can go sexual, but that happens during a dark period.  May be wise to run refugium lights 24/7.
 
Want to buy a refugium bulb?  But a 75 watt powercompact 5100K bulb for about $12.
 
Making a bubble trap takes three baffles.  The water should flow over-under-over.  On the under baffle, make that 1.5" off the bottom of the tank.  Don't clog this area with filter media.
 
 
How the day went...
 
Will, Sukie, and Brad were kind enough to pick up Marc from the airport and to get him squared away at his hotel.  Then a bunch of geeks got together to show Marc around...
 
 
We did a little walk around in the Gateway area...
 
California Pizza Kitchen was the place to be...
 
 
Then, Jake took us to one of his favorite places.  I've never heard of it but Jake goes there once in a while to find some odd treats...
 
It was an eye opening experience...
 
 
DELETED! 
 
Nobody was going to buy anything and Sukie thought that was rude.  She felt like she should buy something since we walked around the store.  Here is what she bought...
 
We then went to Tileman's house to check out his tanks...
 
 
 
Then it was off to the club meeting.
Shane led the way...
 
Marc talked about sumps...
 
 
 
Two Final Items
1) the meeting was recorded and dvd's may soon be available for purchase
2) Marc has agreed to monitor this thread for the next week.  So feel free to post your questions here and he'll respond.  After that, as always check out www.melevsreef.com for more of Marc's tips.
 
Adam 


Edited by Jake Pehrson - October 05 2008 at 6:19pm
Next Meeting: REEF TOUR!
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Mike Savage View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 9:48am
Great write up Adam!
 
I'm glad this one was recorded. If you missed the meeting and have questions about sump design, materials, size or usage then you really need this DVD.
 
Mike


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 9:51am

Ok, a couple more thoughts from Marc. The refugium is a "refuge" do not keep problem fish in there! Also bubble trap baffles should be one inch apart.

Mike



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vbg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 11:01am
Ok Ill bite as I was unable to make the meeting last night due to work. I have a 54g corner bowfront tanks so under tank space is very limited. Right now I have a sump but no refugium and I have a canister filter that just takes and replaces from the large rubbermaid tote. I would like to optimize the system a little. So I was thinking of making a refugium that sat on top of a sump. So overflow would come out of the tank and flow directly into the small box of the fuge. Then it would again overflow to the right into an area that currently has no skimmer but will in the future. Then a couple of baffles and will flow underneath the fuge into my return pump area.
 
XXXX---------Refugium
XXXX     
YYYYYYYY  Sump with skimmer on right and return on left
YYYYYYYY
Aaron Ferre
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KludgeGuru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 11:35am
I really enjoyed this months meeting.  Marc is a great speaker and his presentation was very informative and he has a great sense of humor.  I wanted to thank Marc for this presentation last night and for his website which I have referred to many times when designing my sumps.

Clap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turbostud653 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 11:43am

Mark is a great guy.  Thanks to the pres. for getting him to come and speak.  I learned a lot about sumps and not a confused.  Still nervous to build one for myself.

Here is what a customer said while on hold Oh my gosh! Did you open the door? I told you not to open the door. Dre is in here completely naked and he's got freak'n Macaroni and Cheese in his hands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 11:48am
Still nervous to build one for myself.
I'd be happy to help... as would several other people here.
Adam


Edited by Adam Blundell - October 03 2008 at 11:48am
Next Meeting: REEF TOUR!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Debbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by vbg vbg wrote:

Ok Ill bite as I was unable to make the meeting last night due to work. I have a 54g corner bowfront tanks so under tank space is very limited. Right now I have a sump but no refugium and I have a canister filter that just takes and replaces from the large rubbermaid tote. I would like to optimize the system a little. So I was thinking of making a refugium that sat on top of a sump. So overflow would come out of the tank and flow directly into the small box of the fuge. Then it would again overflow to the right into an area that currently has no skimmer but will in the future. Then a couple of baffles and will flow underneath the fuge into my return pump area.
 
XXXX---------Refugium
XXXX     
YYYYYYYY  Sump with skimmer on right and return on left
YYYYYYYY
 
 
Aaron,  I would recommend buying the cd if it becomes available.  Marc showed many different ways to fit sumps in small or odd areas.  You can also check out his website  www.melevsreef.com for some ideas.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by vbg vbg wrote:

Ok Ill bite as I was unable to make the meeting last night due to work. I have a 54g corner bowfront tanks so under tank space is very limited. Right now I have a sump but no refugium and I have a canister filter that just takes and replaces from the large rubbermaid tote. I would like to optimize the system a little. So I was thinking of making a refugium that sat on top of a sump. So overflow would come out of the tank and flow directly into the small box of the fuge. Then it would again overflow to the right into an area that currently has no skimmer but will in the future. Then a couple of baffles and will flow underneath the fuge into my return pump area.
 
XXXX---------Refugium
XXXX     
YYYYYYYY  Sump with skimmer on right and return on left
YYYYYYYY
 
I think this is OK, except as Mark said several times, only send 25% of over flow coming from the tank to the refugium.  Let the other 75% flow directly to the sump.  You don't want  a huge rush of water washing everything out of your refugium.  It should be a lower flow area that macro algae and pods can grow in.  It is their refuge, not their blast tank.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 1:24pm
where are the pictures!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 1:26pm
On my other computer LOL
Adam
ps- may not get there today as we have the post reef tour party tonight
Next Meeting: REEF TOUR!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vbg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 1:27pm
sweet thanks for the pointers. Ya I have spent alot of time on his site and plan on getting the dvd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EagleEyez5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by vbg vbg wrote:

sweet thanks for the pointers. Ya I have spent alot of time on his site and plan on getting the dvd.



DVD NIGHT AT AARON'S house.....I also was unable to make it to the meeting, this is the first one in over a year that I missed...I was stuck at work.....but I will be there tonight....

WMAS PAID SPONSOR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 3:00pm

Cool. See you there!

Mike
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1fishkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 3:05pm
I also have to get the DVD since I wasnt able to make it there.  I know I have been to his site many times and there is where I got my idea for my sump that I built.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RockStarFish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2008 at 7:54am
I would like a DVD also.I heard it was a great motivational meeting and heard he was a great speaker  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote melev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2008 at 2:10pm
Hi Guys!  Thanks again for having me out there.  I have to commend y'all on not trying to convert me into a Mormon while I was there.  LOL

For a good summation about sumps, here's an article I wrote late last year, in Reefkeeping Magazine:

Reefkeeping 101: Sumps!
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/newbie/index.php

Here is the main sump page on my site.  The left column contains all kinds of helpful links to pages for the DIYer in you:
http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

Refugium Lightbulb:
http://www.melevsreef.com/fuge_bulb.html

Don't connect your RO/DI directly to your sump, please!
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/ml/index.php

If you have specific questions, just ask.  Or read the above links because odds are it is covered.  Wink


Edited by melev - October 05 2008 at 2:14pm
Marc

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shane H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2008 at 3:18pm
Marc,
 
Welcome to our humble MB! And thanks again for coming out to SLC to share your love for the hobby!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tileman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2008 at 3:43pm
Thanks Marc for coming all the way out here and taking the time to come and see my tanks. It was great to finally meet you, and learn from some of your experiences in this great hobby we share. I will definately be visiting your site as I always do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2008 at 3:48pm
Welcome Marc!
 
Thanks for posting the links.
 
Mike


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