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Tank Raised Blue Tangs?

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Adam Blundell View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:06pm
I'm not looking to call out a local store or anything.... but am I the only one wanting to call BS on that post?
 
I find that more than difficult to believe.  If true, I'd be posting some sort of documentation to back that up.
 
Adam
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Shane H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shane H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:21pm
I didn't read it until after I read your post.  I think someone must have made a mistake.
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Jeremyw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeremyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:24pm
Im not sure but they are healthy as crap and he says it comes from the same place as his tank raised clowns, apparently this guy only does tank raised fish.... ?? We will have to find out more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:25pm
Not to nitpick but tank raised does not equal tank bred. 

I've read recently about collecting fertilized tang eggs/really juvi babies and raising them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:33pm
Ah here it is!

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/paracselfaqs.htm

Re: Paracanthurus hepatus rearing from wild young
This is an email I received from Inland Aquatics, one of the sources that
sells the captive-reared Paracanthurus hepatus:
-----------------
<<Can you tell me where you catch your Paracanthurus hepatus?>>
Ours are "Captive Raised", meaning they are collected as
larvae/post-larvae (in the Solomon Islands). They are grown out there for
about a month before being shipped state-side where they are grown out for
another 3 month or so. They are approximately 2" when we offer them for
sale. ($39.99)
---
Perhaps they are an exception to the rule? Thanks again for your
well-founded insight - this is a complex industry to understand, with many
environmental as well as economic considerations.
Keith
<Thanks much for this... do know the company and the owner/mgr. Morgan Lidster... and he is a straight shooter... If he says this is what they're doing than I believe them... Do know of (and have dived with) what I thought was the only outfit doing this "collection/rearing" procedure (in French Polynesia)... and know that they don't (of course) handle Palette/Yellow-Tail Blue/Hippo Tangs (not much in range)... Will post under genus on WWM site. Thank you again. Bob Fenner>
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Shane H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shane H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:34pm
jwoo - you are correct.  Ocean-caught fry have been raised in captivity. Although, I was not aware anyone was doing it commercially.
 
I almost aways consider tank raised to mean tank bred and raised.  We should probably start making that differentiation!
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Adam Blundell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:45pm
I don't believe the fish from Solomon Islands are available at this time.  In fact I don't believe they've been available stateside for a few years now. 
Last time I spoke to Morgan Lidster he assured me that he no longer could get them. 
 
I believe the preferred term would be "captive reared" but I'm still doubting that.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grateful1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:51pm
Indeed!  Such similar terminology is bound to cause confusion--i.e., people buying "tank-raised" fish thinking that their fish was bred in captivity and that their purchase is not having any effect on the reef.
 
Perhaps the adoption of the term used by Bob Fenner(?) above would help make the distinction.  Rather than tank-raised vs. tank-bred, we could speak in terms of captive-raised vs. tank-bred.  For me, the word "captive" is close enough to the word "capture" to remind me that the animal was not actually bred in a tank, but was, at one point, captured from the reef.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by Adam Blundell Adam Blundell wrote:

I don't believe the fish from Solomon Islands are available at this time.  In fact I don't believe they've been available stateside for a few years now. 
Last time I spoke to Morgan Lidster he assured me that he no longer could get them. 
 
I believe the preferred term would be "captive reared" but I'm still doubting that.
 
Adam


I wasn't saying that was where he got them. I have no idea where he got them. I was just referring to something I had read explaining "Captive Raised". You'll note that the article is from 2005. 

A quick Google Search does bring up some sites that are advertising captive raised blue tangs - however I can't get any farther because they all ask for wholesale passwords to see the availability lists.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:09pm
Oh If we are talking about who I think it is, then yes they are tank raised Blue hippos. They are amazing and full of health. The source where he gets them says one the price tank raised. I will look into this more and ask him today and I will call the supplier up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dew2loud1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:13pm
lol, i just spent 20 minutes looking around after reading that post as well,
I knew there were several places rearing captured ichthyoplankton of tangs.

I have absolutely no problem with calling captive reared ichthyoplankton, tank raised, when you are looking at less than half a percent survival in the wild and extremely high survival in captive conditions i think it is great.

There however, IMO is no way you could raise them to 3-4 inches and only sell them for $30, i would bet they would be selling them at 1/2"-1" as tiny blue tangs.  Ornamentals get really expensive to raise past a certain point.

I would love to hear more about this if it is legit, a high quality captive reared tang would be great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:17pm
Dew,

The ones in the store are an inch to inch and a half.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dew2loud1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:30pm
thats what i figured the add said three inches i though thats why i looked it up.  It gets crazy expensive just to raise our clownfish fry past 1" i guess on a commercial scale and/if they are supplementing with wild zooplankton it could be done much cheaper with the blues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:31pm
Okay so I am a little slow today. I just woke up and saw Johns post. John got these in a few days ago before the holidays and he had some nice ones around 2-3 inches. I would say there was only a few around an inch and half. These blue hippo tangs are very nice and have excellent color to them. They are by far the best looking hippos I have ever seen at that size. I have a 8"-9" blue hippo that is fat as a cow and doesn't have the blue that these have. Like I said I will talk with John and I will call the supplier up and I will let you know, but I do believe that they have been raised in a tank for a long time.
Oh has anyone heard of the monodactylus sebae? We have a local breeder for them. Do you guys know who?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:31pm
He could have had three inch ones - I dunno. We bought one on Sat and at that point he had sold some already. It's a really really good looking fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 5:57pm
I think most wholesalers seem to be referring to these two categories fish as "tank raised", and "tank-bred".  I know many retailers are adopting the same terminology (including liveaquaria.com).  Some people are also calling some fish "captive raised" and some people are differentiating this from "tank raised", although I don't quite know the difference.  Maybe they don't want to say tank raised if they are being raised in ponds (or another type of holding container). 
 
That said I have seen “tank raised” hepatus tangs available off and on.  I think it is very possible that these tangs are not being collected as larvae but very small post-larvae and raised until they are sellable.


Edited by Jake Pehrson - December 28 2009 at 5:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeremyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 8:27pm
So I went down there this afternoon to look at them again. They are nice looking.... I talked to the owner of Reefrunners about them. He said they are really Tank Raised. They are caught as larvae and then raised till they are about 1-2" long. He said the place he gets them from has been working on doing this with tangs for about 3 years now. He showed me there website... So I called them Sure enough he was right. They catch the larvae and then raise them for months and months till they are bigger. Then sell them. WOW its about time... so I bought the last 2! He had 15 of them and sold them out in 3 days! Hey at 29.99 for a Tank raised clown you cant beat that!
He said he will get more in though from his new secret tank raised suppliers.... oh and Adam he would be glade to talk to you about it if you would like to call him.... that is at lest what he told me after reading this thread! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2009 at 10:13pm

Thanks Jeremy, I went down there today and they were already sold. Thanks bud. They look great though you got some nice fish. I will be waiting when he gets more. Oh and I asked him about the tank raised as well, and what Jeremy says is true right to the line.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SharkByteShaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2009 at 5:39am
I've seen  similiar sized tangs if not smaller at Birdworld but have never inquired, anyone know what Doug is carrying?
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Adam Blundell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2009 at 9:21am
Well that would be awesome to say the least!  The only group that I know of collecting tang larvae stopped their process a few years ago.  If any local store can show that they really are getting larval raised fish then I would certainly be telling people to buy them.
 
I'd just hate to see a store being told that's what they are getting.... by some dishonest supplier.
 
Adam
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