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FLAT WORMS!!!

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hydro phoenix View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 04 2010 at 12:26pm
I have them! And need to know how to kill them pronto!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote downhill_biker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 2:22pm
Flatworms are super easy. Get some flatworm exit from salifert. Follow the directions. Suck as many of them out before the treatment as possible. The medicine itself isn't harmful to the reef, but the dying flatworms release a toxin, so removing as many of them manually before the treatment is a good idea. Then make sure you have fresh carbon, lots of it, and turn it on as directions say, I think its half hour after the treatment or something along those lines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 3:29pm
Yea I've been battling them for the past month or so.  I have been doing a smaller dose of Flatworm exit then a water change about 8 hours later.  But they were coming back within about 2 weeks.

Mark had posted a method of gradually increasing the dose of flatworm exit each day and adding more carbon each time to basically not even require a water change.

I am in the middle of this process now and so far so good.

So basically what I am doing is (in a 55g):

- Put about 40 drops of FWE in the tank and wait about 1 hour.
- Add a bag of carbon right by a powerhead (with my other bag of carbon still in my canister filter)
- Leave that 2nd bag of carbon there for about 8 hours then removed it overnight
- Next day dose again with about 60 drops of FWE and an hour later put a 2nd bag of carbon back in

So far I have not seen any stress in my fish or corals.  I will likely do this one more time.  After the third time I will do a water change, and hopefully that'll get'em all!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote becken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 3:55pm
Here's some tips I got from someone, it takes a little longer and a little bit of persistance but may help...
1)lower the water temperature to about 76 degrees( the flatworm multiply very very fast at high temperatures)
2) raise ph to 8.3 and do your best to keep it there.
3) maintain alk at high levels.
It took about 2-3 weeks to begin to notice that the population was
decreasing. I continued to Vacuum as many as I could each week when changing the water, and I have not seen any for several months.
Thats my 2 cents...do what you want with it...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote downhill_biker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Chris Scott Chris Scott wrote:

Yea I've been battling them for the past month or so.  I have been doing a smaller dose of Flatworm exit then a water change about 8 hours later.  But they were coming back within about 2 weeks.

Mark had posted a method of gradually increasing the dose of flatworm exit each day and adding more carbon each time to basically not even require a water change.

I am in the middle of this process now and so far so good.

So basically what I am doing is (in a 55g):

- Put about 40 drops of FWE in the tank and wait about 1 hour.
- Add a bag of carbon right by a powerhead (with my other bag of carbon still in my canister filter)
- Leave that 2nd bag of carbon there for about 8 hours then removed it overnight
- Next day dose again with about 60 drops of FWE and an hour later put a 2nd bag of carbon back in

So far I have not seen any stress in my fish or corals.  I will likely do this one more time.  After the third time I will do a water change, and hopefully that'll get'em all!

Thanks


Why would you use smaller doses? Or gradually increase the doseage using Mark's method. The product works flawlessly how it was originally intended to be used. If anything I would say overdose it. The medicine itself isn't harmful, it is only the dead flatworms that are harmful. If you remove as many as possible manually before you dose it reduces the amount of toxins you will experience. I have never heard of someone having adverse effects if following the directions properly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugzme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 5:28pm
+1 I agree completely! I had then 4 yrs ago and used as directed and haven't seen any since
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hydro phoenix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 5:44pm
thanks! I'll try them all! but with caution cause it's a 10gallon tankWink  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by downhill_biker downhill_biker wrote:

 
Why would you use smaller doses? Or gradually increase the doseage using Mark's method. The product works flawlessly how it was originally intended to be used. If anything I would say overdose it. The medicine itself isn't harmful, it is only the dead flatworms that are harmful. If you remove as many as possible manually before you dose it reduces the amount of toxins you will experience. I have never heard of someone having adverse effects if following the directions properly.

I think the smaller doses and adding carbon afterwards was intended to avoid a water change.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote downhill_biker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Chris Scott Chris Scott wrote:

Originally posted by downhill_biker downhill_biker wrote:

 
Why would you use smaller doses? Or gradually increase the doseage using Mark's method. The product works flawlessly how it was originally intended to be used. If anything I would say overdose it. The medicine itself isn't harmful, it is only the dead flatworms that are harmful. If you remove as many as possible manually before you dose it reduces the amount of toxins you will experience. I have never heard of someone having adverse effects if following the directions properly.

I think the smaller doses and adding carbon afterwards was intended to avoid a water change.  


I can certainly agree with avoiding water changes by using carbon. When I did my treatment I didn't do any water changes, but I dont think the reduction in the amount of medicine is beneficial in any way, actually I think it is harmful because it allows the chance for some of the flatworms to live through the treatment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2010 at 9:35am
The method also avoids the costly death of some prized tank occupants because it avoids the immediate high levels of toxins caused by the massive die-off of all the flatworms at once.

See the Tips and how to's section of the link below for the full procedure. In this procedure, you are watching your tank during the entire process to be sure all is going as expected. It's not a set # of drops. Far from it.

Each tank reacts differently to the medication. This way works because it uses only as much of the chemical to start to kill some flatworms at first and with each succeeding dosage. This way you are in control and you can react immediately to any problems in the tank. Then the last treatment, usually the third or fourth, is a much higher dose than even the manufacturers instructions which totally kills off the last few remaining FW's without harming anything else in the tank. Smile

This is similar to how Doctors and Nurses deliver medications in the hospital. They start with a low dosage and watch for the effect, adding more as needed.


Edited by Mark Peterson - July 05 2010 at 9:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2010 at 10:15am
Faith, I went back and checked all over those pics you sent. I cannot see any Flatworms.Confused How did you come to know you had them and the decision that you needed to get rid of them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nano_Reefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2010 at 1:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bluespotjawfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2010 at 4:43pm
Flatworms can build up a resistence to FWE when given at smaller doses. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2010 at 5:39pm
Do you know this from experience or is it an assumption?
If it is true, that makes this method best when done quickly within a week, so that there are no offspring to develop a resistance.

The interesting thing about how we came across this method. Not quite half a dosage left in this 55 gal tank without AC or water change actually did in all those flatworms. We wondered if it made the flatworms unable to reproduce because after 2 weeks there were none.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote downhill_biker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2010 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

Do you know this from experience or is it an assumption?
If it is true, that makes this method best when done quickly within a week, so that there are no offspring to develop a resistance.

The interesting thing about how we came across this method. Not quite half a dosage left in this 55 gal tank without AC or water change actually did in all those flatworms. We wondered if it made the flatworms unable to reproduce because after 2 weeks there were none.Smile


Well if you are killing 99%, or "all" of the flatworms with half dose, then why not do the full dose and make "Darn" sure you kill them all. Honestly the additional toxins of 1% or even 10% are not enough to justify not killing them all off the bat. I have never heard of anyone killing their tank, if they do it properly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2010 at 10:10am
Exactly, so that's why the last dose is a full dose or even 150% dose. Using Lavamisol instead of Flatworm Exit makes this more affordable, btw. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Summertop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2010 at 11:18am
OK, recently I had a flatworm CRISIS!

I started my own thread, for various reasons, on what I did about it.  You can read it here: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42112&PID=366720#366720

NOTE: There is also a link to view some "After" pictures.


Edited by Summertop - July 06 2010 at 11:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2010 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

Exactly, so that's why the last dose is a full dose or even 150% dose. Using Lavamisol instead of Flatworm Exit makes this more affordable, btw. Smile
 
Mark,
 
Where do you get your Levamisole?  Isn't it prescription only????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snoyce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2010 at 5:26pm

levamisole seems to be increasingly hard to find these days, I got some Levamisole HCL powder from this guy, he is superfast to ship and the stuff worked great for me.

 
follow the directions on reefcentral here to use
 
 
For what its worth I agree with using a stronger dose rather than small doses, if you are prepared with fresh carbon and a waterchange the dying flatworms should not kill anything. I used FWE at smaller doses and full dose and they would just come back I could not get rid of them all, but hitting them with a full dose as recommended on reefcentral and then following up a few days later and a week later, totally eraticated them for me and I have not seen any for a month or so now.   If you read through the huge thread on RC you can get the actual levimsole up to a much stronger dose before it starts to effect any inhabitants if you control the toxins released by the dying flatworms.
 
I seemed to have millions of them, if it was a small outbreak just starting I would get on it and hit them hard with a good strong dose before the problem gets worse, Thats my opinion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 9:05am
It's the increasingly stronger doses with an eventual "overdose" and using AC alone without having to do water changes that makes this method different and actually safer than following the manufacturers directions
I promote this method because of the horror stories of dead fish and coral that have occurred using FWExit according to their directions.

Levamisole may still be available from my friend and hobbyist BillyBob here on the MB. I have a packet of the powder that I am keeping on hand for emergencies.
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