Facebook
Twitter

Utah Reefs Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Ich!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Ich!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
tropi_gal View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: May 22 2009
Location: South Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tropi_gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ich!
    Posted: July 06 2010 at 11:56pm
Well, you knew this topic would come up here eventually, right???
 
When i got home from work today I noticed my Blue tang, My sailfin and my un identified blenny are all suffering from ich.
 
What is a good way to get rid of it and keep it gone for good?


Edited by tropi_gal - July 06 2010 at 11:57pm
Back to Top
CapnMorgan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar
The Capn'

Joined: August 19 2009
Location: Tooele
Status: Offline
Points: 3535
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 12:42am
Cleaner Shrimp, Garlic Guard/Garlic Oil, and a UV Sterilizer. All in all the garlic will help your fish keep eating so their immune system can fight it off, the cleaner will help keep them cleaned off, and every tank should have a UV sterilizer (remember when buying a UV to get one rated for your total water volume, not just your display tank size). You can never totally get rid of it without going fishless for a couple months, most new fish will have Ich on them, it's just a matter of are they healthy enough to fight it off. Quarantining new additions for a couple weeks while treating with a copper based medication or formalin will kill off any Ich on the new fish. Just be sure to never mix the water of the QT tank with you display because copper kills everything except fish.

Edited by CapnMorgan - July 07 2010 at 12:43am
Steve
180G Mixed Reef
130G Waterfall Tank
65G NPS
435-830-8855
Back to Top
tropi_gal View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: May 22 2009
Location: South Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tropi_gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 12:52am

Fantastic!  Thanks for your help... I wasn't planning on a UV sterilizer being this important.  Any suggestions to either stay away from or move forward to buy now? :) I don't know if I have time to figure out which UV is best right away.

Garlic has been fed tonight.
 
I will see if I can break away for some cleaner shrimp... will it eat my peppermint shrimp?  I have tried 4 different cleaners that all die the first day! I really wanted Jacque to take uip residence but he doesn't seem to like me LOL.
 
I was just reading that Ich can travel on inverts! And you can't really treat them.  I certainly have upped my invert load recently. 
 
Back to Top
CapnMorgan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar
The Capn'

Joined: August 19 2009
Location: Tooele
Status: Offline
Points: 3535
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 1:07am
Cleaner Shrimp are prone to "heart attack" the best way to help them survive is to drip acclimate them slowly over a few hours. This will minimize the stress. You should also plan it so that you are acclimating them, and adding them to your tank during "dark hours" so plan on shutting your lights off for a few hours (dimming the lights and/or introducing new additions at night is a good practice to follow with all livestock). I have about 12 peppermints and 3 cleaners and have never seen problems. As far as the UV sterilizers go, the Turbo-twist by coralife is a great unit, the aquastep by pentair/lifeguard aquatics is also a nice unit. If you have a water volume of less than 125 gallons the JBJ submariner is an easy way to have a UV.  Again just make sure you buy one to fit your total system volume and not just your tank size. 
Steve
180G Mixed Reef
130G Waterfall Tank
65G NPS
435-830-8855
Back to Top
SGH360 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: April 04 2010
Location: Centerville, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 1786
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGH360 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 1:19am
If you truly want to eliminate your ich is to remove your fish from your display tank and to a quaratine tank and treat them with copper for at least 31 days. Using garlic to boost immune system will help them fight off ich but not eliminate the problem this works as long the ich is not advance where fish will suffocate unless take immediate action. Happened to me and its not fun seeing your fish suffacate to death

Edited by SGH360 - July 07 2010 at 1:19am
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 9:10am
I have not had a single problem with the Ich parasite since we discovered the value of Garlic Oil and I started using it five or six years ago. That's why I wrote up the best way to use it in the "Tips and How to's" section of the link referred below. 
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
jmorrell View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: May 17 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 257
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmorrell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

I have not had a single problem with the Ich parasite since we discovered the value of Garlic Oil and I started using it five or six years ago. That's why I wrote up the best way to use it in the "Tips and How to's" section of the link referred below. 
same here.
Back to Top
tropi_gal View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: May 22 2009
Location: South Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tropi_gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 1:18pm

I moved recently and got out of the garlic habit! DUMB!

Too many of my fish are showing signs this morning  to quarantine quickly ... I will try to pull some out later today.  But I don't know if this a great idea since I don't have an established quarantine tank in place.  Do you think I could just use water from the existing display to fill a 10 g fast? That ick is in there isn't that counter productive?
 
Thinking back I probably didnt acclimate those shrimp slow enough. I can do better next time.
 
I am ordering a uv sterilizer today.
 
How about increasing heat? Should I do that as well?
Back to Top
CapnMorgan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar
The Capn'

Joined: August 19 2009
Location: Tooele
Status: Offline
Points: 3535
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 2:35pm
Increasing heat will speed up the life cycle of Ich, really this only helps if you are medicating w/ copper, or formalin as Ich is only vulnerable to meds during it's free swimming stage. If you are going to move you fish to a QT tank I would suggest using either hyposalinity, or a medication to get rid of it. Other than those options just keep feeding garlic with every meal, make sure they all get plenty to eat, and keep an eye one them. Ordering the UV will help as it will kill free swimming Ich in the water that passes through it. 
Steve
180G Mixed Reef
130G Waterfall Tank
65G NPS
435-830-8855
Back to Top
tropi_gal View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: May 22 2009
Location: South Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tropi_gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 8:08pm
It is sure hard to sit back and wait when a being is on their sick bed.
Back to Top
SGH360 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: April 04 2010
Location: Centerville, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 1786
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGH360 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by tropi_gal tropi_gal wrote:

I moved recently and got out of the garlic habit! DUMB!

Too many of my fish are showing signs this morning  to quarantine quickly ... I will try to pull some out later today.  But I don't know if this a great idea since I don't have an established quarantine tank in place.  Do you think I could just use water from the existing display to fill a 10 g fast? That ick is in there isn't that counter productive?
 
Thinking back I probably didnt acclimate those shrimp slow enough. I can do better next time.
 
I am ordering a uv sterilizer today.
 
How about increasing heat? Should I do that as well?
 
Running a HOB on your tank is always a good option as when your want to quaratine livestock but dont have the proper bio filtration just move HOB onto the quaritine tank also water you got a fully established tank. Make sure you get of all of your fishes into quaratine even one left inside could be a potential carrier. Dont forget that if you dont see any white spots anymore it does mean you got rid of the problem. Hopefully there is not many casualties
Back to Top
tropi_gal View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: May 22 2009
Location: South Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tropi_gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 8:32pm

SG,

I think it is probably too late to set up a QT for this outbreak :( Tonight they still seem healthy and only the blenny is breathing hard. Everyone else is eating and acting normal. So hoping I don't have too many losses.
Back to Top
CapnMorgan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar
The Capn'

Joined: August 19 2009
Location: Tooele
Status: Offline
Points: 3535
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2010 at 10:32pm
You can also perform a medicated dip. I do this on all of my new fish, and it usually prevents infections before they can start. Take about a gallon of SW and add the recommended dose of formalin (usually 2 drops but this varies between brands). leave the fish in there for about 30 min and then return it to your tank (be careful not to mix the medicated water with your tank water. You can repeat this almost daily if you really have to. 
Steve
180G Mixed Reef
130G Waterfall Tank
65G NPS
435-830-8855
Back to Top
tropi_gal View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: May 22 2009
Location: South Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tropi_gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2010 at 7:42am
Steve
Thanks! That feels proactive.
melody
Back to Top
downhill_biker View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: February 28 2009
Location: West Jordan, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 2167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote downhill_biker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2010 at 12:17pm
I too have had good luck with garlic, uv sterilizers, and cleaner shrimp. I have found that feeding a variety of foods also helps with the fish's overall health. I also believe that you will have more success with these methods in a larger tank, or smaller fish in a smaller tank....basically cramped fish, tangs in 20g I have found to be less likely to fight this on their own.

Garlic, UV, cleaner shrimp, and feeding are all good methods but they are not solutions. They do not actually kill the ich. In order to do this you have to use copper or hyposalinity in a QT tank. The ich will be dead in the QT tank after a week or so, but still alive in the display. You have the run the display tank fallow (without fish) for 8 weeks to properly kill the ich in there.

IMO, do the first method. You will inevidably get ich in the tank again. Many people/stores have it, it's just dormant. It will come in on a coral and infect the tank you just spent 8 weeks cleansing of the parasite. The best way is to just make your fish healthy and strong enough to fight it off. I still see it once in a while on my fish, but its gone later that day or the next day.
Make sure you post your best pictures every month in our POTM forum.
Back to Top
BobC63 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 17 2007
Location: Lehi, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 8946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2010 at 12:44pm
Lots of good advice here.
 
I tend to go along with the idea that making sure your livestock is - and stays - healthy is the best "treatment" for Ich (and pretty much anything else that comes along).
 
 - Stable tank parameters and conditions at desireable levels.
 
 - Enough space (adequate tank size) for the type and amount of fish you want to keep, so you avoid stressing fish out due to fighting or overcrowding.
 
 - Feed well with a variety of foods. Note: less than 4 food types is NOT (IMO) a "variety".
 
 - Personally I like to use UV. If nothing else, it improves water clarity, which helps PAR penetration and benefits your corals. I also believe it can help reduce the amount of Ich protozoa in your water.
 
 
Like the others have said, you WILL reintroduce the Ich parasite into your tank at one time or another. As long as your fish are healthy, it is not a problem.
 
I have even had the  past misfortune of bringing home a new fish that I didn;t realize wasn't as healthy as it should have been. Within a day or 2 the new fish would have full-blown Ich, end up fully covered, and even die from it; yet the other fish in the tank were unaffected.
 
Because the other fish were healthy and their immune systems could fight off the intial parasites before they became established and weakened the host fish.
 
 
 
 
 
 
- My Current Tank: 150g Mixed Reef -

* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2010 at 5:12pm
Great advice from all. Thumbs Up
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
Shayne View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: May 13 2010
Location: SaratogaSprings
Status: Offline
Points: 522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2010 at 5:21pm
So is it even worth quarantining new additions? It sounds like it might be kind of pointless in the long run.
21G Reefer Nano
Back to Top
SGH360 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: April 04 2010
Location: Centerville, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 1786
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGH360 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2010 at 6:56pm
Honestly if nothing was quaritine in the past then quaritine new stock would be a waste of time because if the problem would no be on the new live stock but its already present in the tank. I probably would inspect coral for obvious hitch hikers. Doing coral dips and FW dips on fish without being quaratine will remove around 80% of any parasites
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2010 at 8:47pm
Lot's of people with more experience and intelligence than me recommend quarantine for everything, and yet not all the experts agree on that. I have personally asked many of our guest speakers about it. Many feel the same way and have the same experience as me. The quarantine is so stressful for the new fish that if Garlic Oil is not used, it stills gets infested with the Ich parasite after being moved out of quarantine into the new tank. Cry


If the tank is a healthy environment for the incoming fish; an environment that minimizes stress because of the ample supply of natural food growing in the tank and tank mates that are friendly(or trained to be friendlyWink) then the use of a Garlic Oil that is effective in that particular tank will prevent most fish mortality.

That's why I applaud Clap what was said by Downhill_biker and BobC63 about making sure the tank is a healthy environment. Unfortunately, people do not always understand what is meant by the term "healthy environment". For example, too many hobbyists still do not understand or recognize the importance of Alkalinity and Calcium. If we looked at the hobby as expressed by the "complete test kits" at the LFS, which lack Alk and Ca tests, we would have to admit that the hobby still has some catching up to do.Stern Smile

Mark steps down from his soapbox.Wink
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.