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Carbon/Vodka liquid/pellets discussion

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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 20 2010 at 7:52am
Has anyone locally used other forms of carbon or sugar to enhance filtration?

I'm really interested in the results.

Anyone local currently using carbon/sugars to enhance filtration, please speak up and tell us the differences before and after.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jasonincuritiba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2010 at 3:02pm
I dose vodka on my 29g Biocube.  It works great because I have a mandarin that I feed PE Mysis daily.  I also like to feed all my LPS which makes a large bio load.  I am currently dosing about .7 ml a day depending on how the tank looks.  If you dose to much you get these bacteria mucus strands that will clog filters.  I have tried Zeovit in the past but it is no longer in my budget.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crazy Tarzan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2010 at 3:09pm
I'm behind the times, how does vodka dosing help (what process does it improve, how do corals like it)?  Pics of the 29?  I have the same tank, and would love to see what your looks like.
Was that in there yesterday? Casper--WY windier than ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2010 at 3:22pm
doesn't it get the fish drunk? Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugzme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2010 at 4:33pm
There are many different kinds of pellets I will be using ecobak by warner marine.
From what I have read they will:
Take nitrates to zero. (So you can have a larger bioload)
Take po4 to zero. (Will eliminate the need of macro algae)
Only things that are needed is a reactor and a Good skimmer.
Return from the reactor needs to go to skimmer compartment.
Very clear water
I have heard of other pellets and vodka that get blooms
I'm no expert for sure but I will have them friday and will be running them by monday
If you goto R2R Jon warner is online alot and can explain his product


Edited by bugzme - July 20 2010 at 4:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2010 at 7:33pm
I've used the beads from marineland. Although I think you'd need to use lots of them, and for several weeks before you'd really see any results.

There is a really experienced hobbyist doing this and I know that Will has considered bringing him in as a speaker.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugzme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2010 at 7:54pm
I would really like to have Jon warner as a speaker. He has developed the new ecobak pellets. Which are cutting edge and alot of his other products are used by many people.
Who are the speakers for the pro and cons meeting?
Yes they take 3-4 weeks to get results but what I have read they do work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2010 at 9:00pm
I have been dosing my tank with Vodka since I set it up in my old basement to cure the sand and rock. That was about 4 months ago or so.

I have no idea how much I dose. I put in about 10-12 drops for my tank although I think that was a bit much as I couldn't get the diatoms to go away. I stopped dosing for one week and the diatoms started disappearing. Now I am slowly ramping it back up by starting with 3 drops a day.

Vodka or any other carbon source is meant to feed bacteria that eat up nitrogen compounds and phosphates. The bacteria strands are then large enough to be skimmed out by your skimmer. If you don't have a good skimmer, I HIGHLY recommend staying away from any carbon dosing. I am pretty sure it will harm your tank more than help. A good skimmer also oxygenates the water. A bacterial bloom can deplete the tank's oxygen pretty quickly.

Colors are much improved when dosing vodka IMO. They do become a little more pastel but I like that look. I hate the old "keep things natural" line in this hobby. Our little boxes of water are FAR from natural. They can never be "natural." We just can't replicate trillions of gallons and what the ocean can do. Therefore I use technology where I can to help my tank. I do believe that the ocean uses a carbon source of some kind and that it too skims. Think of all the thousands and thousands of miles of coastline where the water bubbles and skims out the junk. Sorry I am off topic...

Go slow and monitor the tank. People say that you MUST watch phosphates and nitrates to know your dosing but I think a skilled aquarist can tell if they are adding too much. Corals tell you what is going on much better than any test kit. The test kit will just help you know how far things are off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 10:15am
Before the notoriety of using Vodka, some hobbyists used ordinary sugars(carbon molecules). What does Vodka have in it that is feeding the bacteria? Are the results from carbon pellets any different than Vodka, sugar, etc.?

I notice that "RF Fuel" is designed for this very same purpose. How about some feedback from people using this. Some before and after comparisons would be nice.

A followup question to all of this is how necessary is it to have Nitrates and Phosphates at zero. What are the levels on the reefs and how does that translate to optimum conditions in our tanks?


Edited by Mark Peterson - July 22 2010 at 10:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:



Before the notoriety of using Vodka, some hobbyists used ordinary sugars(carbon molecules). What does Vodka have in it that is feeding the bacteria? Are the results from carbon pellets any different than Vodka, sugar, etc.?I notice that "RF Fuel" is designed for this very same purpose. How about some feedback from people using this. Some before and after comparisons would be nice.A followup question to all of this is how necessary is it to have Nitrates and Phosphates at zero. What are the levels on the reefs and how does that translate to optimum conditions in our tanks?



Vodka is a carbon source just like sugars and vinegar. The classic combo of vodka, sugar and vinegar is being used widely in the hobby. Theories are that each carbon source may feed a different bacteria. That is why you will also see a lot of people dosing a bacteria source as well.

Probidio, Zeovit and MicroBacter7 are all commonly used bacteria sources to diversify the bacteria in the tank.

From my understanding the pellets are just a solid version of vodka. The bacteria consumes the pellets and releases carbon into the tank.

I use a product called Fuel made by Aquavitro. Not sure if that is what you are talking about. Fuel is nothing more than amino acids and vitamins for the tank. I have used it for about the last 8 months or so and love it. I noticed a huge increase in growth and my corals extend their polyps even more and look really good.

To my knowledge you will find very little, if any, nitrate and phosphate on a reef. They are consumed by the algae and corals and are constantly being washed away.

I think having nitrates below 5 and phosphates at 0 is extremely important. Well that is if you want colorful corals. I say colorful meaning extremely bright and gorgeous. I am different than most hobbyists I guess. I am not in this hobby to look at brown corals and algae all over my tank. I want my tank clean and popping with color. I don't believe people when they say that corals are brown in nature. I have watched way too many shows that show reefs popping with every color under the rainbow. Not a huge reef of terds.

Vodka/carbon source dosing is just one way to lower nutrients in the tank. In my experience it works very well. I believe that unless your refugium is larger than the display tank, it won't do near the job that a couple drops of vodka and a good skimmer will do.

Just my experience in this hobby. I have tried refugiums in the past and wasn't overly thrilled with my success. Since setting up my new tank and using the methods I have described, my tanks have never looked better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rwccomptech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:10pm
Is vodka dosing used with real vodka? >.> like umm, jager?

Edited by rwccomptech - July 22 2010 at 1:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by rwccomptech rwccomptech wrote:

Is vodka dosing used with real vodka? >.> like umm, jager?
I take it you're not a drinker. LOL
 
Jager isn't a vodka. It's a flavored liquor (licorice basically).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rwccomptech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:35pm
Jager has vodka in it lo, besides i like rumm better, get me some captain morgan woot

Edited by rwccomptech - July 22 2010 at 1:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:38pm
Maybe licorice & vodka (Jager) will turn out to be the new garlic oil. LOL

Edited by Shayne - July 22 2010 at 1:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rwccomptech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:49pm
lets start a petition for jager being the new garlic oild

Edited by rwccomptech - July 22 2010 at 1:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:59pm
I'll second that. The only problem would be the "sampling" issue. "A little for the fish. A little for me. A little more for me. A little more for me. Ok... what was I doing?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rwccomptech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 2:09pm
well you have to accout the amount of blood you have in your alcohol stream now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by Ryan Thompson Ryan Thompson wrote:

I believe that unless your refugium is larger than the display tank, it won't do near the job that a couple drops of vodka and a good skimmer will do.


When you mention a couple of drops, how much do you dose and how often?  Can you just put it right in the display tank?  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by Chris Scott Chris Scott wrote:


Originally posted by Ryan Thompson Ryan Thompson wrote:

I believe that unless your refugium is larger than the display tank, it won't do near the job that a couple drops of vodka and a good skimmer will do.


When you mention a couple of drops, how much do you dose and how often?  Can you just put it right in the display tank?  
Thanks,



I literally get my pipette and put 3 drops in the tank. It is maybe .25mL or so. I dose every day and I put mine in the sump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by rwccomptech rwccomptech wrote:

Jager has vodka in it lo, besides i like rumm better, get me some captain morgan woot

Did somebody call me? lol


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