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Davidwillis 
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 Topic: setting up my 29 gal reef
Posted: October 02 2010 at 6:43pm |
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Hi, I used to have a 55 gal reef about 6 years ago that I had to take down because of moving and stuff. I am now getting back into it and am setting up a 29 gal tank. This is kind of an experiment to see how it works out.
This is my plan. I made a bunch of aragocrete for the rock to put in the tank and the sump which I am curing right now. I made it about a week ago, and have kept it in a stream.
Question #1, can I cure it in my tank (before I add fish) or is it best to keep it in the stream until it is all cured
Also I have high nitrates in my tap water even after my ro unit it is still about 15 ppm. So part of my experiment (I know I could run it through a di unti, but I want to see how this works out) I am going to use hiatt right now with TBPC. I am planning on putting the TBPC after the overflow and before the sump.
Question #2 Should I run my skimmer or go skimmer less with this? I have a CC skimmer I used for my 55 gal that worked great. And if I do use it do I run it after the TBPC or before?
Anyway, I will keep this updated as I go, but any hints or suggestions would be appreciated.
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MadReefer
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Posted: October 02 2010 at 6:57pm |
I don't know much about the methods you are talking about hiatt/tbpc and such.
But on curing the rock you made, I would say that leaving it in the stream will save you time. When you think it might be ready, take it out and put it in a bucket with RO water and test the pH, then test it a few days later. If it hasn't gone up too much it should be ready. I've read that it can take anywhere from a few months to a year to cure that stuff.
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 02 2010 at 9:28pm |
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Thanks... I hope it doesn't take a year.... I tested a couple days ago, and the ph was still off my chart, but that was only 4 days curing.
After running the water through the hiat/tbpc the ph is supposed to be much lower, so I am running it through some crushed coral to buffer the ph. Maybe it will balance out uncured rock?...
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MadReefer
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Posted: October 03 2010 at 1:42am |
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The size of the rocks you made will make a lot of difference. As the rock cures it uses CO2 to change the rock, so thinner rock allows CO2 to get to the center sooner. I've read someone talking about curing some small rocks in a bucket and changing the water daily or every other day and it was tank ready in a month. Sorry I have no personal experience. I would make sure the rock is ready before setting up the system. Don't rush it or it might actually slow you down, if you run into problems.
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 03 2010 at 9:08am |
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Thanks...
Here is a little more details on my setup (I will try and get some pictures later). There is about 2-3 inches of fine sand on the bottom of the tank, and later when I get my rock cured I will put in the aragocrete.
I was to lazy to drill the tank, so I made a simple siphon overflow from parts at home depot for about $15. From there it goes down to the tbpc, and into the bottom of the sump (under an under gravel filter with about 6 inches of crushed coral on it). I did this because after going through the tbpc the ph is supposed to be very low with high co2. I figured if it goes the crushed coral it will raise the ph a little. On top of the crushed coral I will put in as much aragocrete as I can. Now at this point I am going to have to add power heads for circulation and aeration, and or run it through my protein skimmer. because I am returning the water to the tank through a spray bar at the bottom. I decided to not break the surface on the aquarium so the surface skimmer will take as much of the surface water as possible. I don't know if that is a good idea or not, but I am going to try it and see.... Anyway I will need lots of aeration in the sump because this is what hiatt says to do :
"Any power heads must break the surface to ensure elevated O2 in your
tank, and the returning water from your filter must not be under the
water, but above the tank water to ensure to drive off the CO2, which
will be replaced with the O2. Otherwise your fish will DIE."
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 03 2010 at 9:13am |
Hello David Willis. I see that you joined this MB in 2005. Have we met? I love experimenting.  Good luck on the aragocrete. I had some that sat in a stream for 6 months and still killed stuff sitting next to it in the tank. The stuff that www.garf.org used to make was much better somehow. They may have had a secret. So my answer to question #1 is the same as the answers already given, give it time and do testing before placing it in the tank. Utah Rock is aragonite and it is so much easier It colors up with Coralline Algae very quickly and coral can be attached to it within a week. And then there is Ut aragonite sand which works great.   With RO water we measure the TDC (total dissolved solids). Is that the 15 ppm you wrote about?Have you read the results of the Hiatt system that a member of this group wrote up right here in the WMAS MB? We also have some hobbyists in our little group that are currently using the TBPC and/or related carbon pellet media. Do a search or maybe some will speak up here. Your second question was regarding a skimmer, which is a mechanical device that physically pulls organic molecules/materials out of the water. Thus it partially cleans the system before any other biological processes need to be used. For my last couple dozen or so tanks I chose to run skimmerless because more life grows in the tank when that stinky stuff is left in the water. "One mans trash is another mans treasure." Most of that stinky stuff is food for a myriad of organisms. You probably read about this back in 2005. It's in an article in the Feb 2002 Sea Star. Have fun with your experimenting.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 03 2010 at 9:22am |
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You posted while I was still writing. It sounds like you are trying to do something different than the way they suggest to see if it will work and not kill fish.
From the brief description you gave, I don't think it will work. Gas exchange at the surface is extremely important. Simply running the water past crushed coral will not exchange CO2 for O2. That is best done at the water surface. If you were to go back and read a multitude of threads here, you would discover that hobbyists have found their tanks are much healthier by placing powerheads near the bottom of the tank and pointing them up to break the surface water.
Also spray bars at the bottom don't do much good. They are worse than one single stream breaking the surface.
There is a lot more...
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 03 2010 at 9:42am |
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Thanks Mark!
I am not sure if we met or not. I know I used to talk a lot to a guy in Smithfield. It has been a while since I was into reef stuff so I just can't remember who I have met.
Funny I was just reading your stuff about the Utah Rock and was thinking that would have been much easier...LOL Is there still some around. I might have to make a trip (I live in cache valley).
My Tap water has a TDS reading of 700-800 and about 40 ppm nitrates. After the RO I am getting TDS of 8 and nitrates of 15.
I did read a bunch of stuff with people using the hiatt system, but I don't think I found the one on here... I will do a search...
I don't think I explained my self very well... I am running the return from the TBPC through the crushed coral to raise the ph back up, then I will use powerheads/skimmer for co2 to o2 exchange (all this in the sump). I think the instructions are for use without a sump. So if I just return the water to the bottom of the tank there will be too much co2. However I am returning it to the sump where I will try and raise the ph and do the c02/02 exchange. Then return it to the tank (bottom was my plan mostly to provide circulation without power heads in the tank.
Thanks again...
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 03 2010 at 10:09am |
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15 ppm Nitrates is not bad at all. It can quickly be eaten up by algae. One of the reasons why hobbyists should realize that water changes are not the best way to resolve pollution problems. Algae is much better at removing N compounds from the system.
The guy in Smithfield is my old friend Tom Miller. He is one of the early members of the WMAS. He and I made the first trip up to GARF in 1996. He introduced the club to Green Sinularia. He was so into this hobby that he used to write for Marine Fish Monthly. That magazine went out of business many years ago. I last saw Tom many years ago, but know that he is still in the hobby because I heard he was a visitor on a recent WMAS Reef Tour. He probably still has some awesome reef tanks. He was making a lot of Aragocrete, but that was before we discovered Utah Rock and Oolitic Sand. I have plenty of that rock and sand if you want some.
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 03 2010 at 10:33am |
Yes that is him... Tom Miller. That is where I learned how to do the arogocrete, but never got around to doing it until now, and now there is something better. I would love some of that rock Could I come over today and get some? I ask because I am not going to have time to make a drive down to there for a couple weeks if I don't do it today.
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 05 2010 at 8:44am |
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Thanks Mark for the Utah rock and the advise. I cleaned off the rock and set it up in the aquarium. I will take a picture later, but I think it looks great. I also build my canopy and put my let lights in. The color looks really good to me, it is a mix of 8000k and actinic.
Thanks again
David
p.s. is there anyone in the cache valley area that could donate a small piece of LR or LS to get my tank started?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 06 2010 at 7:30am |
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Wonderful.
With some macroalgae and a few pieces of LR from an existing healthy tank, following the method in the Reefkeeping Tips below, you can have a living reef aquarium within a week.
Edited by Mark Peterson - October 06 2010 at 7:31am
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 15 2010 at 12:25pm |
I am finally getting ready to add the fish! I still need to paint my canopy, but other than that I am done. Water conditions: temp: 74deg (I am going to turn up the heater just a bit) PH: 8.1-8.2 alk 11.5 dkh ammonia-0 nitrite-0 nitrate-0 (strange, my water going in has nitrates, but they are now 0) I am still planning on trying out the Right now bacteria to get the cycle started, and I have the TBPC in already (which I wonder if that may have been what took my nitrates down to 0). here are some pictures... sorry I had to reduce the quality to upload them  picture #1 is just a front view  picture #2 shows where water is returning to the tank from my sump through that pvc pipe under the sand  picture #3 is my filtration and sump. After it overflows out of the sump it goes through the TBPC (the taller black abs pip), then through the second pipe filled with crushed aragonite. Then through the protien skimmer and finally into the sump where it is circulated with power heads, heated and returned to the tank.  picture #4 is a top view of the tank. You can see my led lights and a top view of my overflow/water return  picture# 5 is just the front picture of the whole thing  picture# 6 is a side view showing the overflow/return.
Edited by Davidwillis - October 15 2010 at 12:39pm
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SGH360
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Posted: October 15 2010 at 12:44pm |
thats is pretty cool looking tank. what kind of lighting do you have in there
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 15 2010 at 1:02pm |
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Thanks.
for the lighting I am using two of these
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10704+21600&pcatid=21600
I used the 8000k/blue mixed one.
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 15 2010 at 7:59pm |
Just added the fish, and right now. I will be monitoring closely to make sure it cycles like it is supposed to.
2 Ocellaris clowns 1 flame angel 1 coral beauty 3 yellow tail damsels 3 blue damsels 2 peppermint shrimp 10 hermit crabs
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 16 2010 at 9:15am |
17 hours after adding the fish
temp: 75deg specific gravity: 1.024 PH: 8.0-8.1 Alk: 10.64 ammonia: 0 (maybe slightly off 0, but much closer to 0 than the first color of .25) nitrite: 0 nitrate: 0
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CapnMorgan
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Posted: October 16 2010 at 10:10am |
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Looks good! There was a hobbyists here a while ago that ran all his tanks on the Hiatt system. He seemed to be successful, so I can't see any reason why you shouldn't be. I was reading your post about the use of agrocrete to buffer the pH in the sump, how does the hiatt "pH Rock" buffering capacity compare? (I don't know a whole lot about the Hiatt system) As long as it's similar I'm sure it could work out fine.
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Steve My Old 180G Mixed ReefCurrently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8
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SGH360
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Posted: October 16 2010 at 11:33am |
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You are cycling your tank with Livestock? Im not really a fan of that method, as long as you keep it in check and fish show little sign of stress. your good
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 16 2010 at 12:59pm |
 CapnMorgan wrote:
Looks good! There was a hobbyists here a while ago that ran all his tanks on the Hiatt system. He seemed to be successful, so I can't see any reason why you shouldn't be. I was reading your post about the use of agrocrete to buffer the pH in the sump, how does the hiatt "pH Rock" buffering capacity compare? (I don't know a whole lot about the Hiatt system) As long as it's similar I'm sure it could work out fine. |
Thanks... The idea of the "PH Rock" is to bring the PH back up after going through the TBPC. The bactiria on the TBPC lowers the PH and adds co2. I have not put in the aragocrete because it is not cured (I am sure the uncured would bring the PH up...lol). I opted to use crushed aragonite instead of the PH Rock, but if it does not work I can easily buy some PH Rock and put it in instead. Right now the PH is hovering around 8.0-8.1 which I think is a little low, but it was there even before I added the bacteria. The PH rock is supposed to take it up to 8.4-8.6 depending on how much you use. I am guessing it dissolves better at a higher ph than crushed aragonite does, so it may have to use it.
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