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Help- The dreaded ich!

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DLindquist View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 23 2010 at 9:09pm
I posted maybe about two weeks ago about an ich problem I was having. Well...today I am sad to say I have lost one of my Helfrichi Firefish. Correction, he is still alive- but for how long? He's gone. Cry  I have been feeding with a couple of different garlic oils (Kent Extreme Garlic and an actual diced garlic my wife uses for cooking) All the fish eat great. However, the ich is still present. I posted a lot of details in another thread listing all my new fish  http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43217  I couple other fish have ich present also. It seems to get better then reappears. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Let me know of any questions which may help recommendations.
           -Thank you.


Edited by DLindquist - October 24 2010 at 3:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGH360 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 11:11pm
QT all of your fish ich will not go away. i have the same dilemna copperband brought the sickness. myblue tang was the most infected my clownfish never show any ich. that was 2 months ago the ich is still present. but my blue tang have little ich for the past 3 weeks. and i used the seachem garlic oil. but if you truly want to save your invesment QT and wipe the och
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadReefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 11:37pm
QT is the way to go if you can be successful. I've never setup a good QT tank. I tried when I first started and it didn't always work so I gave it up. It didn't always work because I set it up in haste when I already had the problem. It's best to have it ready and use it for all incoming livestock.
For some reason I only saw ich when I was new to this hobby. But something that seemed to work then (when it didn't stress the fish more than it was worth) was ph/temp adjusted freshwater dips for just a couple minutes.
Actually the above statement about only seeing ich when I was a newb wasn't completely true. After I had over a year and a half of experience (maybe still a newb) I bought a tiny, tiny, tiny blue tang. It got ich. I just fed it well (it took many foods before I found that it would eat two types of flake), with garlic every other feeding. I was lucky and it lived to grow to several inches before I sold it when I took down my 180.
PS- maybe I'm still a newb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadReefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 11:42pm

Another thought. I think it's best to make the tank happy and remove any stress. You can do this by overfeeding and feeding with very high quality food. Only do this if your tank can handle the waste of the food. And feed many times throughout the day.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote builderofdreams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 11:54pm

Are you using a Good UV?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadReefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 12:27am

I can't believe I forgot UV. When my tiny blue tang lived through ich, I had a big UV sterilizer on a smallish tank. Then I ran it for a while after I setup my 180. UVs will stop the spread.

I also had success without a UV, but I would recommend you get a UV sterilizer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 12:41am
UV for sure!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLindquist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 1:31am

High quality food (frozen-Emerald Entree, Squid, Brine Shrimp, Coral & Cyclo) Pellets and Flake every now and then. I do not have a UV. I ran one many years ago but do not have one set up now. However, something I have been considering.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bstuver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 1:36am
UV works wonders!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick801 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 9:18am
don't forget to turn down flow rate through the uv =) though I'm not exactly sure what the recommendation is for ich I'm sure someone will reply with in an hour or so of me posting this.... anyway I'm pretty sure you need it pretty dang slow to actually be affective towards ich
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 9:36am
it depends on your uv unit but usually 500gph is about where it needs to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote builderofdreams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 10:05am
I  recently went through the same thing with Ich I lost 12 out of 17 fish.
My UV bubl was ot doing it's job and the flow rate was to high.
I put a new 25 watt turbo twist and then cut the flow rate to 85 gallons an hour.Which is good for parasites.
Lost no more fish after that.I will see if i can find the Article  in which explains the flow settings.Here is a good link to help understand.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html
 


Edited by builderofdreams - October 24 2010 at 10:18am
It's Not a Hobby It's an Obsession
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote builderofdreams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 10:26am
Just a heads up on the UV i learned the hard way.
do not leave the uv on with no water running throughit.
my uv is attched to my return,so when i feed i would shut the pump off.
Salt water is worse than fresh cause the salt will cystalize on the glass over the bulb and reduce the effectiveness of the light. i shut my uv off about 2 minutes prior to shutting down pump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2010 at 12:20am
slow flow through the UV if it is too fast it wont effectively kill the ich... we used small maxi jets
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2010 at 7:55am
I have to aplogize for the limited help I was when you called Sat night. I was very distracted and I do better when given some time to think.

At this point you have tried Kents and a prepared garlic used for cooking. I don't consider fresh garlic as useful as the prepared garlic oils. In my experience, the stinky garlic oil in gelcaps from the grocery store or health food store has been more reliable in a greater number of reef aquariums.

I definitely agree with the use of UV. I don't know how the slow flow does it since it only processes a small amount of water. I used to be a skeptic of this piece of equipment, but it definitely seems to do the job. I have a hunch that it does something to the water of the entire tank, making it unhealthy for water borne parasites. I arrived at this hunch after realizing that the natural UV in sunlight has a positive effect on my sunlit tanks, even though a lot of the UV is stopped by the window and the tanks get direct sunlight for only a portion of the day.

I often write about making our tanks more healthy and reducing stress. As was mentioned above, making sure there is plenty of a variety of foods especially more plant foods than hobbyists typically provide, is a big part of that. Overfeeding actually reduces aggression between competing fish. A few other things that help reduce stress are:

- aquascaping to provide plenty of hiding places
- good coral growth which helps filtration, parasite consumption and indicates good water quality
- ensuring live foods, both plant and animal are present and growing
- ensuring that water parameters are within range and relatively constant
- minimizing changes to the tank
- keeping kids from banging on the glass Smile


Edited by Mark Peterson - October 25 2010 at 7:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2010 at 8:24am
UV for sure, David
 
I am not a big fan of QT tanks simply because IMO they need to be fairly large in order to provide a stable enough environment for the new livestock; much larger than many hobbyists would want to have devoted to a QT tank... for small fish like firefish I would recommend a 30g QT. Again, bigger, and more hassle to set up and run than most people would want to have to do.
 
I also wonder if ozone would be of any help in destroying the larval stage of the parasite?
 
(Mark may have a bettter answer on this)
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLindquist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2010 at 8:58am

Ich is such a pain! 14 years in SW and this is the 1st time I have had this problem (or any real problem I can remember). I will be looking into the UV sterilizer. If any one has a UV setup I could borrow for the time being, it would be greatly appreciated.

Mark, I believe your checklist accurately describes my tank. Besides over feeding (which sometimes I wonder if I already do) and the UV, I am not sure what else to do. I know I lost one of the Helfrichi Firefish and did not see the other one at all yesterday.

Edited by DLindquist - October 25 2010 at 8:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2010 at 9:33am
Yes, Ozone is an alternative method of controlling Ich and it works quite well though nothing is 100%.

I have to admit, with all my talk of trying to help others with their reef aquarium problems, I'm not smart enough to avoid this kind of situation myself. From time to time I have the same problems. It's one of those things that happens when adding new stuff to our tanks or sometimes just out of the blue. Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thathiep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2010 at 3:40am
Update?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLindquist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2010 at 9:05am
Sadly both Helfrichi Firefish are gone. It looked like the ich was also gone. However, last night I noticed spots again on the Kole Tang. Ouch Still feeding with different garlics. Still have not been able to install a UV Sterilizer.
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