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Official Bacterial Driven Thread

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CapnMorgan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2010 at 7:39pm
I've been thinking about running biopellets on my 180, I'd really like to completely eradicate nitrates and phosphates. They are quite low, but they do creep up over a couple months.
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2010 at 8:42pm
Im totally doing it. Went to the liquor store, bought a 5th of smirinoff, couple drops for the tank, couple shots for me....Wow tank looks better than ever ...amazing colors!...burp..hickup...belch....thud!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2010 at 9:22pm
...okay on alittle more serious note, this thread is a great read, and I think once I get a better skimmer, I will probably give it a go. Looking at the breakdown Ryan posted on the dosing regiment, it doesnt look too bad. A small price to pay for growth like that.
So as I have read through this thread, it seems alot of people are kind of interested in running pellets. David wondered if it's safer? Jeff said he used ecobak and liked it, and Steve is thinking about biopellets.  Could someome at least tell me what they are? Are they pellets that disolve, like a pill? Or if not, do you run them in a sock, or a canister filter? I know using pellets should probably be its own thread, but it seems alot of people are curious.


Edited by Jeffs_little_ocean - November 01 2010 at 10:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2010 at 9:43pm
I think this is a great thread idea Clap
 
I've never done vodka but the concept is intriuging
 
But please put some pictures in - both of the corals and maybe some "how to"pics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2010 at 10:06pm
Jeff- Biopellets are a digestible biopolymer that serves as the carbon source for the bacteria. So instead of feeding them ethanol and growing the bacteria in your entire system, you are only growing them in the media reactor. So it's more contained and less maintenance because you don't need to dose your carbon source daily. You do still need a good skimmer, and the outflow from the reactor should be put near the inflow for your skimmer to remove the excess bacterial growth. But overall it is safer because you have less risks of bacterial bloom, and much less risk of crash from overdosing. Because with pellets you start with a little and then add more until you see your nitrates and phosphates hit 0. I plan on running them in conjunction with my refugium just to remove the nitrate and phosphate that the macro algae misses. That way I'll still have plenty of pods for my fish to eat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ahanix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2010 at 11:43pm
Just ordered my microbacter7 :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kody72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2010 at 12:19am
i've been using the kz line for 2 weeks now and all i can say is wow it's awesome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2010 at 2:38am
I want to knock on wood, but I'm a month into MB7 and Vodka and all I can say is "WOW"!.  Coral growth and colors are taking off.  3 corals, in particular, have had zero growth in almost 6 months and in the last month they have grown at least 30 - 50% respectively and for the rest of my corals, it's just short of craziness.  It's truly a breakthrough in reefkeeping from what I can gather.  To sum it all up in one sentence, "I now have planktonic growth in my tank for corals to feed on 24/7" (and my water is twice as clear to boot).

Edited by jcom - November 02 2010 at 2:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2010 at 8:53am
Seems to me that pellets would be better than manual dosing for the continuity and stability.  If used to handle an increased bioload of fish the continuous source would keep parameters constant, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ahanix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2010 at 9:48am
I think it probably would be easier and more hands off with the ecobak pellets. Correct me if I am wrong but their website says that they are safe to use with a media bag as they are not water soluble / will dissolve as the bacteria eats it away. I'm still trying to decide if I want to go straight to vodka dosing or use these pellets, but I'm kind of leaning towards the liquid only because I like to tinker with things. Though at $20 for enough to treat 50 gallons the pellets are intriguing to say the least

Edited by Ahanix - November 02 2010 at 9:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2010 at 10:10am

I guess the question would be, can you get these type of results from the pellets: Aparently these pics were taken 5 months apart with MB7/Vodka dosing.... Wow!

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2010 at 12:18pm
One note of strong warning.  You must test A LOT when starting this method.  As mentioned, the tank's demand for ALK and Ca will change (in my case it lessened) while the system adjusts to the probiotic system. 
 
Had I not been testing thoroughly, my ALK would have shot through the roof and my Ca was rising rapidly as well.  I had to greatly adjust my doser downward over the course of a month.  The demand for each of these is just now starting to rise again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2010 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

Seems to me that pellets would be better than manual dosing for the continuity and stability.  If used to handle an increased bioload of fish the continuous source would keep parameters constant, right?
 
Apparently, the drawbacks or criticism of the pellets is that they keep the carbon source and the majority of the bacterial colonization isolated to just the reactor in which they are located (by the way, I don't think a media bag would work well for them as they are supposed to tumble quite heavily in a reactor to keep from clumping).
 
From what I've gathered with Vodka, VSV, VGV, etc., the carbon source is introduced into the entire system and thus the bacterial is better able to colonize on the live rock, substrate, etc.  This, in turn, makes the bacteria more readily available as a food source for the corals. 
 
Also, from what I've read, this system was originated with the goal of providing this planktonic food source to corals as opposed to reducing nitrates and phosphates.  The latter was more of a benefit that was stumbled upon in the process.
 
It's still quite a pioneering method (especially the pellets) so it will be interesting to see what comes of it all in the years ahead.  It's certainly not for everyone as it does require diligence, but for me, that's part of the hobby that I like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2010 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by jcom jcom wrote:

One note of strong warning.テつ You must test A LOT when starting this method.テつ As mentioned, the tank's demand for ALK and Ca will change (in my case it lessened) while the system adjusts to the probiotic system.テつ

テつ

Had I not been testing thoroughly, my ALK would have shot through the roof and my Ca was rising rapidly as well.テつ I had to greatly adjust my doser downward over the course of a month.テつ The demand for each of these is just now starting to rise again.



Great point!

I don't test for nitrates or phosphates as I know they are both already low but I've noticed my phosphates are dropping because the algae on my glass isn't growing as quick. I do test weekly for alk and calcikum though. I need to get a magnesium test kit now so I can test more regularly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2010 at 8:26pm
A great article about probiotic systems:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2010 at 10:04am

I have been reading more on this method... and have one very big concern with it, and I may even have the same concern with the method I am using since it is bacterial based.

What happens if the power goes out?  I have read through most of sunny's thread (linked to somewhere), and at one point someone tried this method without a skimmer and all his fish died (due to the bacteria using all the oxygen).  And another guy took his skimmer off for a couple hours to clean it.  See what happens to his pH during this time:




I am still reading, and am no expert, but that is a little scary to me..... maybe wen need a power backup to be safe...


Edited by Davidwillis - November 06 2010 at 10:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2010 at 11:00am
Those ph jumps aren't scary. Pretty normal from what I've seen. If it was jumping between like 7.8 and 8.4 then I would worry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2010 at 11:31am
I know that isn't too bad, but his skimmer was only off for a couple hours or so.  What would happen if it was off for say 6 or 12?  Several years ago we had a power outage that lasted a little over a day.  It was caused by a fire that hit a power station or something.  

I am just seeing in the chart that it was dropping fast until that protein skimmer got plugged back in.  Do you think it would bounce back up if you left the skimmer off for a day?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2010 at 3:54pm
ORP changes throughout the day to my knowledge. Depends on fish and coral uptake.

No matter which system you run, if power goes out you need to stir your tank with a stick and create some aeration. You can even throw in an air stone for a while to keep oxygen going.

If my power were to go out right, I wouldn't dose anything to my tank until power came back on. Your oxygen will take a hit but with some added flow from the user, things should be okay.

Power outages are the scariest thing to me in this hobby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2010 at 4:32pm
Thanks... 
Yes, no matter what system you are using, a power outage is scary...  

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