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Official Bacterial Driven Thread

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Jeffs_little_ocean View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2010 at 6:52pm
Holy crap! Now you tell me. You would think in somewhere in the "offical bacterial driven thread" it would have said somewhere, Dont follow the recommend dosing instructions on the bottle or you will kill your tank. Geeze!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2010 at 6:53pm
Thanks ryan, and steve.... so the bacteria is just eating the nutrients that cause phosphate and nitrate(not actuallly phosphate and nitrate) and the vodka is making the bacteria "big" enough to be skimmed out.. if I read that correctly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2010 at 6:56pm
Oh and jeff, remember it only says "official" so ryan sounds like he knows what he is talking about
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2010 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by badfinger badfinger wrote:

Thanks ryan, and steve.... so the bacteria is just eating the nutrients that cause phosphate and nitrate(not actuallly phosphate and nitrate) and the vodka is making the bacteria "big" enough to be skimmed out.. if I read that correctly



No, the bacteria is eating the nitrates and phosphates. Your system already works this way. Bacteria on the rock and sand break down the nutrients in the tank.

It is the whole Nitrogen cycle. This method is really natural although people think it isn't.

Fish are polluting the water. You have to break the pollution down so it can be removed from the system. Whether you are running a refugium with macro, doing frequent large water changes, running an algae scrubber or running a bacterial driven system they all have the same concept in mind, import and export of nutrients. Some ways just work better than others.

By adding MB7 you are adding bacteria that aids in the process of removing nutrients. Tanks over time will have a dominant strain of bacteria take over the tank (that is the theory at least). MB7 is a bunch of bacterial strains and enzymes. It keeps your population of bacteria diverse and you ensure you have enough bacteria to do the job.

Make sense?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2010 at 7:41pm
I understand that.... the vodka just feeds the bacteria to make it big enough to skim?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2010 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Jeffs_little_ocean Jeffs_little_ocean wrote:

Holy crap! Now you tell me. You would think in somewhere in the "offical bacterial driven thread" it would have said somewhere, Dont follow the recommend dosing instructions on the bottle or you will kill your tank. Geeze!


You aren't going to kill your tank IMO. I just warned of that possibility.

Please don't follow the manufacture instructions on ANYTHING you dose to your tank. Manufacture's want you to buy stuff. If you follow their dosages you will go through their product quicker and thus buy more product.

I have a bottle of AquaVitro Fuel that has lasted me over a year. If I had followed their dosages I would be on bottle two or three by now and probably battling hair algae.

hope that makes sense. I think the instructions on MB7 are a great guideline to start. However I recommend going slow with anything in this hobby and seeing how things react.

Jeff, you are safe IMO. I would just cut back at this point and have your nitrates measured. Without a Hanna Phosphate meter, it is almost pointless to test for phosphates with the liquid kits. So just see where your nitrates are at right now and you will be good to go.

I recommend adding 2-3 drops a day at this point and start adding two drops of Vodka every other day. Remember 1 drop for every 30 gallons is my rule.

Hope that helps!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2010 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by badfinger badfinger wrote:

I understand that.... the vodka just feeds the bacteria to make it big enough to skim?


To my knowledge yes. I will have to refresh my mind later tonight when I get a chance to do some reading and searching.

Adding MB7 is still very beneficial because your tank has methods of removing nitrates and phosphates. MB7 is aiding in this process.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2010 at 7:59pm
Im just alittle mad at myself because I never thought about new bacteria causing an oxygen depletion. My fish have been hiding out alot more than normal since i started dosing mb7 and I thought it was the probably from the increased microbubbles in the water from the skimmer, but now I think its probably from me suffocating them with my ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2010 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by Jeffs_little_ocean Jeffs_little_ocean wrote:

Im just alittle mad at myself because I never thought about new bacteria causing an oxygen depletion. My fish have been hiding out alot more than normal since i started dosing mb7 and I thought it was the probably from the increased microbubbles in the water from the skimmer, but now I think its probably from me suffocating them with my ignorance.



Just back off to the low nutrient dosage at this point and see how things react. I bet your oxygen levels are still pretty good since you have a skimmer going.

With no skimmer, I highly advise that you don't use this method.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2010 at 11:47pm
This is how I understand it:
 
The need for a powerful skimmer comes from the fact that you are introducing more bacteria and diversity to your system.  Unlike fish, coral, crabs, etc., bacteria lifespan can be measured in days rather than months or years.  Once the bacteria dies (after it has consumed its food, multiplied, etc), it becomes part of the organics and/or dissolved organics we are trying to remove from our systems.  If it is not skimmed out, along with the other dissolved organics from detritus, dead algae, etc, etc, it will be released back into the system along with the nitrates and phosphates it has consumed. 
 
It is estimated that over 95% of the oceans' biomass is bacteria.  It is everywhere...in the water column, substrate, rock, fish, coral, and zooxanthelae within the coral.  It is the engine that keeps the oceans running.  So to say that introducing or innoculating bacterial strains into our systems is "unnatural" is absurd.


Edited by jcom - November 17 2010 at 11:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2010 at 9:32am
So my day 2 results are pretty impressive. My water is crystal clear, whereas it always had a slight tinge to it before. It did develop a slight whitish film on the surface of the water for a couple hours but it went away pretty fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luckedout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2010 at 7:15pm
Here's my thought on the carbon source. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Carbon is generally what most organisms eat, including bacteria. Detritus in our tank is a carbon source and also the cause of nitrates and phosphates. You add a carbon source with the bacteria to proliferate them rapidly so that it will also consume the detritus carbon source as well, thus eliminating a big source of nitrates and phosphates.

Is that about right?
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www.body-balancechiropractic.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2010 at 8:30pm
So I noticed this today.... I decided to leave my skimmer on when I dosed mb7, and my orp dropped lower then it has the last 5 days with me turning off my skimmer when dosing, and even dosed a lesser amount... how would this be possible?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2010 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by badfinger badfinger wrote:

So I noticed this today.... I decided to leave my skimmer on when I dosed mb7, and my orp dropped lower then it has the last 5 days with me turning off my skimmer when dosing, and even dosed a lesser amount... how would this be possible?
Wow badfinger, thats bizzare? How are your fish doing?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2010 at 10:52pm
So because I havent seen much of my fish for the past few days, and after learning yesterday that I have been adding way too much mb7 to my tank for the past week (even though I was just following the directions) I decided to do a fish inventory today. After moving some rocks around I discoverd the corps of my little bicolor blenny which I have had for 2 years. I know its just a cheap ten dollar fish but im really bummed about it. Also I cant see my yellow watchman goby anywhere and am pretty sure his fate is the same. Luckily all the other fish and inverts are accounted for. Im not sure, but If I had to guess I would say it was issue with oxygen depletion from me being niave and adding billions of bacteria to 50 gallons of water. Although I still alittle pissed at myself, I do still plan on dosing and continueing on with mb7/vodka just in the significantly lower low nutrient range. Im just posting this mostly for education purposes so that you guys know what can happen, and hopefully you will learn from my mistakes (especially those of you with alot of expensive fish). All in all I still believe in this system and believe that you can get amazing results in coral growth, just START SLOW!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2010 at 10:59pm
Well put Jeff. I'm sorry about your fish, that always sucks. I'm glad your going to keep going though. I also have to say I was skeptical at first about this system (really skeptical). But I have been pleasantly surprised. I was comparing the directions on my Katalyst media to the MB7 instructions on the bottle. The Katalyst instructions actually have you use much less MB7 than the ones on the MB7 bottle. It seems to me that the MB7 instructions were made for dosing bacteria alone, and don't factor in the carbon dosing. 
Steve
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120G Wavefront Mixed
29G Seahorse & Softies
Running ReefAngel Plus x2
435-8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:36pm
Everything is doing just fine in my tank, but this tank has only been up for 6 months. So fairly new system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PDoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2010 at 1:12am
After a few pms a while back and some research I grew weary of my minor cyano and began dosing sugar and vinegar. (Still prefer to drink the liquor. I am why the rum is goneLOL) I love the results
(307)679-7898 Phillip Douglass 75 Gallon Reef Tank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2010 at 11:31pm
Just wanted to post a quick update.

My growth all of the sudden exploded on a few corals. I have a tort of some kind, not sure if it is Oregon or Cali but it is growing by the day right now. I swear last night there wasn't any new branches on the encrusting part of the coral and today there are about 10 new branches.

My green tenius has sprouted off some more growth on the base and the upper branches.

I have an SPS that I have no idea what it is but its' growth on the base has doubled over the last few days. My wife even asked me about it because you can see all the new growth going on.

I will have to test my alk and calcium again and start up daily dosing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2010 at 12:10am
My tank is also doing well. I've noticed some new growth, and also some color shifts. So far no detrimental effects. I almost wonder if I'm keeping my pellets too fluidized, they aren't going like a hurricane or anything but they are definitely tumbling pretty good.
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