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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 8:20am |
Oh and I would not remove the rock from that small aquarium. That would make things worse. The Tang would die without places to hide.
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Reefboy4life
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 10:58am |
Thats what i was thinking because he is really shy and he spends most of his time behind the rocks.
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90 gallon mixed reef
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BobC63
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 5:33pm |
Sorry guys, but I am going to have to disagree with some of the more conventional feeding suggestions made here.
Hippo Tangs (aka Regal Tangs) are much more omnivorous than most other Tangs that we keep in our aquariums. That means they just don't need only algaes and other plant- based nutrition; they need protein - based planktonic foods as well.
I would actually limit the plant material to just a sheet of nori and maybe some macroalgae to nibble on. Plant-based foods have a lot of bulk, but liitle caloric content and almost no protein or fat. This guy needs some serious nutrition to combat that tail rot and HLLE, and to pack on a little weight.
I would feed heavily with vitamin enriched protein foods like Bloodworms, HUFA brine, mysis, glassworms or blackworms (if you can find them). Even beefheart would be OK. Your local LFS should carry most (or all) of these. Stay away from conventional brine shrimp, as they are not very nutritionally dense. Flake is OK once in a while, but not a staple to be fed every day.
Soak your frozen foods with a couple of drops of Selcon before feeding. Feed at least twice daily; more often if you can manage it - and as much as the fish can eat in 15 minutes. Overfeeding in this case is OK; the fish will need the extra food energy to fight of the diseases and to grow back the affected fin areas. Just remove any uneaten food so that it doesn't pollute the tank water. And change out at least 10% of the water once every week.
Just leave the nori / macro in there in case the fish wants a snack - but not as the main course.
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
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Reefboy4life
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 5:54pm |
Ok i am going to do whats best for the fish and give him to someone with a larger tank, and someone with more knowledge about how to help this poor fish.
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90 gallon mixed reef
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Reefboy4life
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 8:58pm |
the fish is swimming around and eating it just needs a bigger tank, anyone?
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90 gallon mixed reef
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jmtreml
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 9:24pm |
I just have a problem with my hippo tang. It had ich and I started to feed garlic that I bought from aquatic dream, and within about 3-4 days it is about 80% better. I think I am going to start feeding garlic everyday just to boost my fish's immune systems. I also did about a 5 gallon water change once a day in my 90gallon tank. It looks like everything in my tanks seems to be doing really well now.
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34 Gallon Red Sea Max
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Reefboy4life
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 9:35pm |
ya, garlic does do wonders i need to go get some more.
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90 gallon mixed reef
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 30 2010 at 12:33am |
BobC63 wrote:
Plant-based foods have a lot of bulk, but liitle caloric
content and almost no protein or fat. This guy needs some serious
nutrition to combat that tail rot and HLLE, and to pack on a little
weight. |
This is a common and widespread misconception about plant foods - that
they contain little protein. I agree that Blue Tangs eat a varied diet,
but mostly algae. In this case the Tang has most likely been receiving almost no plant foods.
That deficiency is why it is so sickly.
Humans, like Blue Tangs are not carnivores. Blue Tangs, like humans are designed for a
mostly herbivorous diet. Unfortunately, we humans have been severely
misinformed about the need for animal protein in our diet. Plants and
algae contain enormous amounts of protein, carbohydrates and just enough oils. Additionally,
proteins and oils from plants are in a more usable form. We have been
lied to that we need to eat animal foods to get our protein. The truth
is that we can get protein the same way as cattle. And how do cattle get
their protein? That's right.
Edited by Mark Peterson - November 30 2010 at 12:59am
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BobC63
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Posted: November 30 2010 at 1:12am |
Sorry Mark, I respectfully disagree on 3 points.
1) There is a large difference in the amount of nutrients (specifically caloric content, amino acids, saturated fats and most 'B' vitamins) between a given amount (by weight) of algae vs. animal - based proteins such as those I mentioned.
A fish in this condition needs to maximize the available food energy to help its body repair itself. The optimal foods will have the greatest gross amount of calories and protein in the smallest quantities of food. On these aspects animal-based protein wins hands down.
2) In my experience the Hippo is one of the least dependent on algaes for diet of all the Tangs we commonly keep in our tanks. The Hippo I have now I got from Asad (seti007) maybe 2.5 years ago; he had it in his sump for awhile and it had become quite thin and a bit haggard looking from being banished to the sump... even had the beginning of HLLE...and was around 4.5 inches long.
Today this fish is closer to 6 - 7 inches long and is as fat as can be. No signs of any HLLE or even ribs . I put up a sheet of Nori, or toss in some chaeto and my Desjardini, Naso and Yellow Tangs go nuts over the algae - while the Hippo cruises the tank waiting for his beloved bloodworms, which he sucks up like spaghetti... along with mysis, brine, reef plankton and even small krill.
Will he pick at the Nori? Yes, if there is no other food available. But he totally ignores chaeto and caulerpa and does not pick at the live rock or at the glass scraping off algae like the other 3 Tangs all do. He cruises the mid-water level in the tank and loves to pick food right out of the water column. Not much of a "browser" like my other Tangs.
The last Hippo I had - maybe 10 years prior - was pretty much the same.
3) And lastly - yes, cattle do get their protein solely from plants. But they also have a vastly different digestive system from humans (how many stomachs do they have, 2? 3?) and I don't think we humans could chew our "cud" even if we wanted to.
Edited by BobC63 - November 30 2010 at 1:13am
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MadReefer
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Posted: November 30 2010 at 1:35am |
If you want to give the best food, without vitamins added, for a blue tang, IMO it would be cyclopes (gives to Bob's point) and nori (gives to Mark's point). Many tangs would not feed well on cyclops because they are so small and floating around in the water. But I bet a lot of blue tangs like it. Also, the best flake food would be spirulina flakes. JMO. Mix it up though, no matter what, it's good to give a varied diet.
If it doesn't take to nori, you might want to try putting pieces of nori in multiple places in the tank.
Main problem, it's been said before, is swimming room.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 30 2010 at 11:53am |
Good points on all accounts.
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Reefboy4life
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Posted: November 30 2010 at 11:11pm |
Tang is in a bigger tank, thanks for all the good help.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 9:34am |
BTW, we may not have several stomachs and chew cud, but we have teeth mostly designed to chew plant matter and our intestinal tract is long like an herbivore not short like a carnivore. The idea that "bulk" and proper nutrients can only be gained by eating animal products is an unfortunate misconception, promulgated by the animal industry by their beef and dairy councils. For the past 4 years I have tested the idea of eating a mainly plant based diet and have found myself healthier, with more energy and less sickness. In the first two months of eating this way, I could actually feel the cholesterol clearing from my blood vessels. Then I had a significant experience where, despite a reduction in physical exercise during those two months, I ran further and was less winded than ever before. Since that first experience, I have studied and found ample evidence that a plant based diet has merit. Here is a website where we can learn more about the decline in health caused by modern eating habits and how disease may actually be kicked simply by changing what we eat: http://www.ravediet.com
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Davidwillis
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 10:07am |
Not to argue with anything that has been said, but this may be of interest.
Edited by Davidwillis - December 01 2010 at 10:08am
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Summertop
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 10:17am |
OK, I rarely weigh in on topics like this...but this time, I'm going to...The key to Health is BALANCE. Doesn't matter whether you are a fish, cow, or person.
Simply changing what you eat to more closely match your dietary requirements won't do it. By "Balance", I mean life style...Diet, Recreation, Exercise, Mental stimulation, etc...
From the Hippo point of view: Food alone won't make him healthy, he needs a healthy diet, places to graze, rocks to hide in, open swimming room, etc. I applaud Reefboy (and others) for trying to find him a better home, in addition to a better diet.
People are the same. Simply eating healthy won't cut it. We need exercise, recreation, mental stimuli, etc. Its been my experience, that when people like Mark, state they are feeling much better...More aspects in their life are in "balance", not just what they eat. Am I right Mark?
I try to maintain this philosophy in my aquariums. I try to provide more than just good food. I try to provide a good, overall, environment as well.
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Shawn Winterbottom
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Luckedout
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 10:51am |
Davidwillis wrote:
Not to argue with anything that has been said, but this may be of interest.
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Ahhh you beat me to it. Actually there isn't a lot of protein in plant matter. There are specific plants that do contain good amounts of protein like beans but green leafy veggies have negligible amounts of proteins that are available to humans. As stated, we're actually not well suited for digesting plant matter, we don't have the ability to break it down very well. This is why vegans and vegetarians have to supplement their diet with protein. Shawn is right in that balance is really the key to diet and well being. As humans, the reason we need to eat a lot more veggies and fruits is because only with large quantities will we get the nutrients we need. We don't need large amount of fats and meats because we digest them easier and therefore don't need as much for nutrient needs. Exercise, mental stimulation, etc are also key. I'm glad to hear this tang is in a bigger home and getting the care it needs. I again agree with Shawn that providing the absolute best environment for your critters is the key to a healthy tank.
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-Ben
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bur01014
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 3:15pm |
The answer to all this: feed yourself and your tang a protein plant- SPINACH!! jk...maybe they would eat it
btw the suggestion that we don't digest fruits and plants well is beyond me....we don't eat hay or grass.....typical plant-based food sources we actually eat are full of fiber and are digested very well....fish on the other hand, I wouldn't have a clue....
all this about what is easy to digest and what isn't is nonsense.....we don't need to eat of ton of veggies or fruits to obtain neccessary nutrients/vitamins....it is quite simple, nobody wants to eat fruit and veggies... because steak, fat, candy, chocolate just tastes better....eat just a couple servings of the healthy stuff w/ a vitamin supplement a day would be plenty.....
this is how I would work with the fish....feed a varied diet, both protein and veggie base, with added vitamins (selcon) added to the food. Look for quality foods that are already enriched (vit C etc.)
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 3:29pm |
I would have to agree with Bob and most books and reference materials agree that Hippo tangs primarily feed on zooplankton, rarely on algae. My Hippo tangs (I have 2 that I raised from 1/2" long) eat only "meats". Enriched brine, mysis shrimp, silver side meat, shrimp meat (tiger), cut up fish, etc. I do offer Nori and other algaes, but the Hippo do not eat it (the other tangs love it). My guess is they have Hippo tangs in their own genus because they are quite different from other tangs. The lack of algae is not the problem in my opinion. Feed him a varied diet. I would guess the problem has to do with water quality (high nitrates if I was to guess).
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Luckedout
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Posted: December 01 2010 at 5:04pm |
bur01014 wrote:
all this about what is easy to digest and what isn't is nonsense.....we don't need to eat of ton of veggies or fruits to obtain neccessary nutrients/vitamins....it is quite simple, nobody wants to eat fruit and veggies... because steak, fat, candy, chocolate just tastes better....eat just a couple servings of the healthy stuff w/ a vitamin supplement a day would be plenty.....
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Sorry, but you're wrong in so many ways. Since it's completely OT from the OP I will leave it at that, but PM me or start a topic in the Off-topic section if you want to learn about proper nutrition.
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-Ben
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www.body-balancechiropractic.com
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: December 02 2010 at 10:39am |
The really sad thing about the Standard American Diet (SAD) is that we have all been led astray by the greed and marketing of animal food companies. One of the big lies is how much animal protein they say we need to consume in order to stay healthy.
The only way to get cholesteral is to eat animals.
The best way to kick cancer, heart disease and many modern day illnesses is to eat just plant foods.
The chemicals and modified ingredients that are used in processed foods are actually the cause of some of today's health problems.
Plant foods have practically everything that humans need to grow and be healthy. They do have lots of proteins, just not animal proteins. The fiber in plants enables good health. Eskimos do not eat a lot of plant foods. Cold environments make animal proteins more appropriate.
When I started eating the total plant foods that my wife prepared, I actually had less exercise because I also changed jobs at that time. I know it was the change in what I ate that had the effect on my health and energy level. FYI, I do not take any vitamin supplements, but I do have a bite of animal food from time to time. I have found that gives me what I need to feel healthy.
Edited by Mark Peterson - December 02 2010 at 10:41am
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