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2 clown triggers dead..

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Davidwillis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2010 at 5:37pm
I would still like to know what the salinity was that the aquarium store kept the fish at.  You can lower the salinity fairly quickly, but you have to raise it very slow.  If it was in a hyposalinity tank it will take a week to get it ready for your normal tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2010 at 11:07pm
I too hope that Kyle will come back and finish this with us. It not only helps him but it helps us all learn from his experience. It kind of bugs me when we don't know whether our discussion was helpful or if the hobbyist chose to live with the problem. I worry that sometimes people don't come back because our suggestions didn't work and they thought that was all we had to offer. It happens a lot with algae control. Cry If they would just stick with it and let us know what effect our suggestions had, we can always help them step up to the next level, a more aggressive treatment. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herrera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2010 at 6:26pm
 
Sorry for delayed response. internet has been down.
i just tested my tap water, and shows 10ppm nitrates..
so i will be looking for RO unit asap, and hopefully i can get nitrates under control.
still havn't had time to go get water tested.
I did  test bird worlds water salinity with refractometer, came up with  1.010
 
 
Originally posted by vadryn vadryn wrote:

I would have thought someone would comment on the heavy impact livestock in conjunction with the relative "youth" of the tank...  The absence of coraline sticks out to me like a sore thumb.  Is there a "good" biologic filtration working in a new tank like that that doesn't have the critters?  Maybe it's just me? 
Well the tank how now been set up for 6months. what should the limit of fish be for my tank?
 
And how will coraline sticks help?
the only filtertration i have is 2 socks for each dump pipe..
 i would like to have had a sump. but with the plumbing and limited space i have, i don't think it would be possible.
 
Originally posted by smacky smacky wrote:

You've plenty of room in the sump for some macro and I think it would definitely help things out. Try to get some algae and a cheap light to go in there.

If you can't get either of those by the time I go up to see my mother-in-law (around the 18th or so) who lives in Ogden, I'll bring you some chaeto and an old light. Just leave the light on around 16 hours a day, opposite to the display light schedule. Though it probably wouldn't hurt to run the fuge light 24/7 for a while until your ammonia/nitrites/nitrates are under control.

On a side note, I'm jealous of your huma huma trigger. Mine's a reef tank, but if I ever did go with a FOWLR it would be to get a huma huma, I love them.
 
if there is anyway you could bring some that would be greatly appreciatedBig smile and thanks! triggers are the reason i joined the salty side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2010 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by herrera herrera wrote:

 
Sorry for delayed response. internet has been down.
i just tested my tap water, and shows 10ppm nitrates.. 
so i will be looking for RO unit asap, and hopefully i can get nitrates under control.
still havn't had time to go get water tested.
I did  test bird worlds water salinity with refractometer, came up with  1.010


Well that is a big big problem.  Fish can handle going down in salinity fairly quickly, but to raise it from that low to a normal marine level will take a week or more.  The suggested rate is 0.003per day.






Edited by Davidwillis - December 14 2010 at 7:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vadryn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2010 at 10:43pm
I didn't mean "coraline sticks" Tongue.  I just have my tank as a reference over time, but I can say that coraline starts covering anything I add to my tank in very short order.  It didn't used to do it so quickly.  Coraline is part of the filtration. 
 
The other thing is, with a FOWLR tank, you lack a lot of the critters that are part of the filtration process.  They eat excess food, break down waste etc.  I was suggesting that with the lack of these things (immature bio-filter, lack of cleanup crew) that you were likely going too fast by adding such high-impact fish (biologically speaking) so fast/soon.
 
After a year and a half of being a reefer and the time spent beforehand researching, I still consider myself a Noob.  My comments were more to spark additional dialogue from the seasoned veterens here than to claim I had answers.
 
I think the suggestions here sound great.  More LS and LR will increase the bio-load your tank can handle.  Same for macro algae.  If you can add critters in your refugium that's good too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2010 at 10:54pm
Has anyone else ever tested Bird Worlds fish system? 1.010 seems awful low to me. It doesn't make sense for them to keep it that low because of the problem of acclimating fish back up to 1.022-25 where most of us keep our tanks these days.

Hard to say regarding the fish limit. There are many variables involved. My opinion, looking at the pic, is that without making the changes we have suggested, I would hope that you don't try to kill another Clown Trigger.

It's not "Coralline Sticks". What he said was that there isn't much Coralline Algae on the rock and that concerns him.

"socks for each dump pipe" That is not the real filtration of a marine aquarium. More than 85% of the filtration is done by the life in the LS, LR, LW and Algae. Our suggestions are meant to improve that filtration because there is great room for improvement.

You have a sump. I don't understand why you say that you don't. If you meant that you don't have space for a Refugium, that is also not so. There is a perfect spot for Algae to grow. It just needs a the cheap Home Depot light that we all use. That's a Refugium. Smile

We can help you keep Clown Triggers, if you are willing to follow our suggestions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herrera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 1:41am
i was told not to get any CUC because the triggers would eat them..
I think i'm not growing any coralline algae because i just have a standard light that?
also, i meant to say that i would have liked to have a protein skimmer in my sump..
where can i buy some algae?
125g Aggressive tank
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40g Sump
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 6:22pm
i was told not to get any CUC because the triggers would eat them.. They may eat Hermits but Snails have a better chance of surviving. It's easy to add a few and see how they do. A well fed Trigger is less likely to snack on those little reef janitors.Smile

I think i'm not growing any coralline algae because i just have a standard light that? Not true. I have grown lots of Coralline algae and have seen Coralline growing very well in tanks with ordinary fluorescent bulbs. The "Aquarium/Plant Grow" bulbs available at hardware stores works the best and it makes fish and everything more colorful too. Big smile

also, i meant to say that i would have liked to have a protein skimmer in my sump.. You can have both and enjoy all the benefits. There is plenty of room for a Refugium and a Skimmer in that sump.

Where can I buy some algae? In this club there is no need to buy algae. Lot's of hobbyists not far from you are (or should be) harvesting macroalgae from their Refugiums every month or two. You can get a free handful or more almost anytime. All you have to do is ask with a post here on the MB 

When you think of something for your aquarium or when you read or hear something from a hobbyist or LFS, come here and ask us. We will give you the straight and truthful answer. The combination of experience of all the hobbyists on this MB knows almost all the answers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herrera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2010 at 3:00am
good deal. thanks for the helpSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2010 at 8:23am
If I were you I would talk to bird world, and ask them if they really have there tanks at 1.010.  If they do ask what there protocol to acclimate them to 1.025 is.  It should take a week or so... Then I would ask them to do it for you.  The good thing about them doing that is you will not have to worry about any ich..... the bad thing is that if you take them up too quick they will die.  If they won't, then you can do it yourself, or get your fish some place else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2010 at 10:59am
Two days ago, I called Bird World specifically about this. I spoke with Dan. He's been there a long, long time. I don't know why, but it really shocked me that he did not know the salinity of the fish system and was only mildly annoyed that it would be as low as 1.010. I asked if he could check it while I was on the phone. He had no way to check it unless he opened a new Hydrometer. He made the excuse that Doug (owner) keeps the Refractometer locked up in his office. Doug had just left so I needed to call back when he is there.
Needless to say, this left a bad taste in my mouth and I have not called back.

My dear fellow hobbyists,
This is why we must know what we are doing and not accept the word of the LFS. There are exceptions, but to most of them it's just a job. To us it's our beloved pets and we must take control of their comfort.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vadryn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2010 at 11:18am

Can someone follow up with this? 

If they have their salinity in that range - I think it's VERY important for us to know about it.  I won't knowingly buy a fish that requires a week to acclimate to my tank or else it will die. Angry  I like Bird World, but I won't even browse the SW there if that's the case.  Why look at something you won't buy when you can look at it somewhere else AND buy it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herrera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2010 at 2:37am
i have checked the salinity with both hydrometer, and my refractometer. came up with 1.010
 
i have purchased all my fish through them.  the death of my triggers were probably due to another matter, but the salinity change did not help i'm sure.Confused
 
different issue with birdworld that is kind of relative. i noticed they have Emperor Scorpions with sand for bedding.  this type of scorpion comes from a humid climate, and requires
 80%humidity.  sand betting sucks up any humidity there is.
A proper bedding would be bark, and moss that is misted several times a day.
 
I mentioned that to them, and they said they would let the manager know. this was about a year ago, and they still use sand. which causes respitory infections, and a slow death.
 
really irratates me..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bluespotjawfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2010 at 8:13am
If they are keeping it at 1.010 I believe it is because that have had ich introduced to the system already.  Unless there have been no new introductions for several weeks, and the fish has been there for several weeks as well the fish may still have it, just not show signs of it.  I agree that they should tell you so you can slowly acclimate the fish over several days.  I haven't been to Bird World in ions, but when I did shop there, they used copper in their fish systems, not hyposalinity.  They kept the fish system on the low end of normal (like 1.018-1.021) to reduce stress. 
 
Research more about the step by step process of hyposalinity treatments for ich. 
 
And, if you are only topping off once a week, you have a large swing in your salinity.  It is better to top off more frequently so your salinity is more stable. 


Edited by Bluespotjawfish - December 18 2010 at 8:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2010 at 8:47am
Originally posted by herrera herrera wrote:

i have checked the salinity with both hydrometer, and my refractometer. came up with 1.010
 
i have purchased all my fish through them.  the death of my triggers were probably due to another matter, but the salinity change did not help i'm sure.Confused

That is more than likely the cause of the death.  Maybe the just started doing that or something, but taking them from 1.010 to 1.025 in a matter of hours is likely to kill the fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PhotoGlen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2010 at 10:14am
Originally posted by herrera herrera wrote:

i was told not to get any CUC because the triggers would eat them..
I think i'm not growing any coralline algae because i just have a standard light that?
also, i meant to say that i would have liked to have a protein skimmer in my sump..
where can i buy some algae?

I live in Tooele but if you are willing to drive here I have a bunch of Chaeto with a ton of life you can have for free.  Just pm me.
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90 gal. with a 40 gal. sump
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herrera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2010 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Bluespotjawfish Bluespotjawfish wrote:

And, if you are only topping off once a week, you have a large swing in your salinity.  It is better to top off more frequently so your salinity is more stable. 
i ony add  5 gallons of water to 165gallon tank/sump  will there is still be a stressful salinity swing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vadryn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2010 at 2:20pm
That's a change in water volume of 3%.  I would bet that's not a big deal.  If you notice problems, then it may be time to reconsider.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2010 at 7:40am
Like has been mentioned already, quickly decreasing salinity is something that seems to be lessof a problem than quickly increasing salinity.

Have you made any of our suggested changes to the tank yetQuestion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SumpCrab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2010 at 8:47pm

First off, I am appalled at bird world. I am not sure if this would kill the fish but it certainly did not get them off to a good start and no one mentioned it to me when I bought fish there recently. huh Bird World?

Second, I can't believe no one has discussed feeding! Triggers eat constantly in the wild much like tangs. They need to be fed at least 3 times per day and I am astonished at how much my 2" picasso can eat. In fact I have never seen a SW fish eat this much before. Which also brings up the fact that you don't have enough filtration on that tank to support the amount of nutrients these things generate. To get them calories in a compact form (my trigger loves this stuff) try small sinking pellets by Ocean Nutrition.
 
Third, nothing was mentioned about the difficulty in keeping small specimens of the clown trigger fish.
 
And a 6 month old tank with dead rock, no skimmer and no macro algea is akin to a 2 week old tank set up with one or more of the above.
 
Notice also that the OP decides to run out and spend his $150 on a RO unit which really wont do a thing at this point except allow him to justify his rationalization that some how his tap water and not his skill level are to blame (my trigger is fat and happy in a tap water fed tank with nitrates at 40ppm). Here is some advice. Spend 100 on live rock and 50 on better lighting (a few home depot 6500K FL daylight bulbs is a start). The rest of the things you need are free, time for the tank to mature, macro algea from someone here and time to start reading about what the hell you are doing before you kill anymore fish. 
 
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