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Davidwillis
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Topic: what is this on my clown? Posted: January 12 2011 at 12:31am |
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SGH360
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 12:49am |
there are few things that come up in my mind. here are few thing that it might be
External bubble disease
Isopod infestation
Flatworms
monogenetic trematodes
when did you start noticing them? do they move? how long do you had the fish? what are your water parameters? is in on a QT or DT?
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Davidwillis
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 8:42am |
I noticed the bubble looking things a couple days ago, and the other thing just yesterday.
They do not move. I have had the fish for 3 months, but just recently moved all the fish to a QT tank and am treating them with hypo salinity to get rid of ich. The water did get some ammonia and nitrate (which I treaded with daily 60% water changes, and prime). But now nitrate is 0 nitrite is 0, and nitrate is about 20, and salinity 1.009 sg.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 9:23am |
So you are saying that this has developed in your QT tank? How long had the fish been in QT before this showed up? How long has the QT been set up? My first thought was local swelling due to injury, like from Nematocysts. My second thought was Flukes. It could be the effect of hyposalinity on some internal parasites. The resulting death of the parasites caused a localized reaction to the parasites body fluids. In the lower peduncle area, the parasite may be trying to escape, causing an eruption.
I'm curious about your decision to use hyposalinity for Ich. Had you tried Garlic Oil and it didn't work? Which of the other fish are in the QT?
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Davidwillis
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 9:47am |
Yes, he has been in QT for about 4 weeks now, and I just noticed it. I set up the QT tank just a few days before adding the fish, so I did have to do large water changes and use prime to keep the fish safe from ammonia and nitrite. I Also seeded with with a sponge from my tank, and used stability to try and get the cycle going faster. It took a while to finish the nitrogen cycle, but ammonia and nitrite are now 0.
I was wondering about flukes as well. Should I treat with prazipro? From what I understand Hypo will not kill flukes.
I used garlic, and the fish seamed to get a little better, but it kept coming back. I couldn't stand to see my fish suffering, and was afraid it may never get over it. I guess it is just my personality, I can't sit back and watch, so I needed to do something about it.
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Davidwillis
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 10:35am |
Mark Peterson wrote:
In the lower peduncle area, the parasite may be trying to escape, causing an eruption.
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I just looked at it this morning, and it looks like it is falling off now.
Also I forgot to answer the question about which other fish are in quarantine. They are all in quarantine. I will keep them all in for 8 weeks leaving my display tank without fish.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 10:46am |
Nitroferizon is a good chemical to use for various problems, though I don't remember if it kills flukes. Flatworm Exit/Levamisole is supposed to kill flukes. Did you try a different brand of Garlic Oil. I have 2 different brands in my fish stuff right now. One or the other always seems to work for me. In case you missed it, I mentioned this in the Tip about the use of Garlic Oil. Check this old thread for some other useful information about QT's: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8442Anytime you want to set up a tank quickly and not see the N Cycle, just add a large clump of Macroalgae and for extra efficiency or if the algae clump isn't large, simply light it 24/7. (Some LR and LS helps too.) The algae eats up all the N so the typical start-up problems never happen. No water changes, no brown algae no problems. I know it works. I just did it on the frag tank I set up a month ago. The anemone, the Coco Worm and all the frags I got at the Fragfest are doing awesome. Polyps came out almost immediately and have stayed out. I've already fragged, grown out and sold Green Sinularia from this tank.
Edited by Mark Peterson - January 12 2011 at 11:32am
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SGH360
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 11:24am |
if flukes is the problem Freshwater dip is the fast relieve, they will fall right off.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 11:35am |
A freshwater dip is for external hitchhikers. These bumps/protrusions/inflamations appear internal.
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Luckedout
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 12:01pm |
Will the fish survive 8 weeks in such low salinity?
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-Ben
90g Mixed reef
www.body-balancechiropractic.com
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SGH360
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 1:18pm |
the salinity is not the problem is the filtration that needs to be stable during this 8 weeks
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vadryn
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 2:29pm |
If you want to come by my house I'll give you some NLS Thera A pellets. It's very good food with garlic already in it.
If you want, I'll sell you 1/2 lb for $7. I think I have both 1mm and 2mm pellets, but definitely the 2mm. I think this will help your fish fight off what's going on. After all, the fish are like us in that Doctors don't heal us, they help our bodies heal themselves. You can't heal the fish, healing comes from within. You can help by improving the environment and diet.
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Davidwillis
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 3:26pm |
Mark Peterson wrote:
Nitroferizon is a good chemical to use for various problems, though I don't remember if it kills flukes. Flatworm Exit/Levamisole is supposed to kill flukes. Did you try a different brand of Garlic Oil. I have 2 different brands in my fish stuff right now. One or the other always seems to work for me. In case you missed it, I mentioned this in the Tip about the use of Garlic Oil.
Check this old thread for some other useful information about QT's: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8442
Anytime you want to set up a tank quickly and not see the N Cycle, just add a large clump of Macroalgae and for extra efficiency or if the algae clump isn't large, simply light it 24/7. (Some LR and LS helps too.) The algae eats up all the N so the typical start-up problems never happen. No water changes, no brown algae no problems. I know it works. I just did it on the frag tank I set up a month ago. The anemone, the Coco Worm and all the frags I got at the Fragfest are doing awesome. Polyps came out almost immediately and have stayed out. I've already fragged, grown out and sold Green Sinularia from this tank.
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Thanks mark... where do I find Nitroferizon?
I used "now" garlic oil softgels, I pressed garlic cloves, and I used omega one pelets with garlic. The now softgels seemed to work the best.
I didn't know macroalgae would live at 1.008 sg...? Also from what I hear it is not a good Idea to use live rock/ live sand because when you drop the salinity you will get a lot of die-off, and the bacteria can go inactive.
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Davidwillis
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 3:30pm |
vadryn wrote:
If you want to come by my house I'll give you some NLS Thera A pellets. It's very good food with garlic already in it.
If you want, I'll sell you 1/2 lb for $7. I think I have both 1mm and 2mm pellets, but definitely the 2mm. I think this will help your fish fight off what's going on. After all, the fish are like us in that Doctors don't heal us, they help our bodies heal themselves. You can't heal the fish, healing comes from within. You can help by improving the environment and diet. |
Thanks, I may take you up on that offer. However I am not sure when. I have two kids getting there tonsils out in the morning.
I have been feeding them good frozen food, as well as omega one pellets with garlic. The fish seem healthy, except those bumps.
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Davidwillis
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 3:33pm |
SGH360 wrote:
if flukes is the problem Freshwater dip is the fast relieve, they will fall right off.
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Do the flukes fall off if you do a freshwater dip going from 1.008 sg? I thought about trying that, but I think the flukes die from the quick change in salinity, where I don't know if it will work going from already low...? And also like mark said they look internal....
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Davidwillis
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 3:43pm |
Luckedout wrote:
Will the fish survive 8 weeks in such low salinity?
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apparently they can live at that salinity for years. Although I don't know if it is very healthy for them. My flame angel has been doing great in it. His HLLE is now gone, and so it the ich. Also his color seems better.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 12 2011 at 11:40pm |
You would probably need to find Nitroferizone online. The major problem with your situation is that when the fish are returned to the display, they will again be exposed to, and subject to, the problems that put them in the QT in the first place. I know that I seem crazy, and some hobbyists choose to ignore me, but this situation is the reason why I am always emphasizing that a hobbyist should learn how to provide the healthiest environment in their display tank. Some hobbyists prefer the look, but a clean sterile looking display is not the healthiest aquarium.
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Davidwillis
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Posted: January 13 2011 at 8:08am |
Mark, I don't know why you would say that. I don't think you are crazy, in fact I think you are very knowledgeable. However I do know a thing or two about fish and aquariums and ich (not enough that I will not ask for help though), and I think I provide a healthy environment for my fish. Just because I choose a different way than you choose does not mean I ignore you, or think you are crazy. But ultimately it is my fish, and my choice on how to take care of them. And I hope you will continue to help even though I don't always take your advice.
The problems with my fish in the first place was that 1) there was ich in my tank. And 2) the fish were stressed while I was on vacation when the temperature in my tank dropped to 60 deg. This allowed the ich to take hold. I went through a similar situation on my 55 gal tank, and by the time it was over I had lost 3/4 of my fish. At the time I was using a rdp system with a protien skimmer for filtration.
So now after taking all the fish out of the display tank all the parasites in DT will die, and all the parasites on the fish will die due to the hyposalinity. Also the fish will be healthy (if I can figure out what is going on with the clown fish). I will have healthy fish in a tank without ich.
So how are they subject to the same problems that put them in the QT in the first place?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 13 2011 at 9:45am |
It's just me. I get a little crazy because I see people repeating the things that have been tried the same way over and over and over again and they don't accept that I am basing my comments on many years packed full of observing those failed attempts. You said, "I will have healthy fish in a tank without ich." Out of respect, I will just repeat what I have said before: Because you can never eliminate stress and because you can never completely eliminate nor avoid re-introducing Ich into an aquarium. Because a too clean system is not healthy. Because Nature needs to be allowed to do it's thing, The healthiest and most stable system is the one that may look a little dirty and cluttered. It is this clutter, this plethora of living creatures that make it all work. The living organisms support each other so that they will survive even when the hobbyist makes a stupid mistake, or a piece of equipment fails. I'm not smart about a lot of things, but I know how to keep coral and fish. And that's all I have to say about that.
Edited by Mark Peterson - January 13 2011 at 9:50am
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Davidwillis
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Posted: February 05 2011 at 8:49pm |
Just an update. All fish have returned to the main tank. The clown fish looks much better, but if you look close you can still see very tiny bumps. Also I have not seen any signs of ich.
After searching everywhere, the closest thing I can find is lymphocystis. Do you think that might be it? Anyway if that is it then there is not much to do other than keep the water conditions good, and he should get better.
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