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kody72 
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 Posted: April 22 2011 at 2:48pm |
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The tank was over 1yr old the rock is over 3 yrs old except maybe 20lbs of it and its a year old. I could grow anything and everything in it the move was only about 2hrs. Start to finish
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ptronsp
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 3:16pm |
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You know it is really frustrating to me that more and more people that are coming to this forum for answers and help are being left frustrated, hurt, angry, and confused because of the way they are being treated. There are so many people in this hobby with the knowledge and the know how to help people along ( especially noobies) and that is why they come to the board is to get answers... not belittled. After all this is a hobby we all want to enjoy.. can't we all enjoy it together no matter how many years we have been in it?
Mark, you simply are too harsh. There is a way to help people and offer them your help without being rude. I have read post after post of you degrading people for whatever reason and it's just wrong. It is getting to the point clearly that people are going to quit coming here for fear that they will be belittled for questions or comments they may have. In this hobby it's not " Your way or the highway", and you are leaving a lot of people that are new to this hobby questioning whether they should be in this hobby or not and that is not right at all.
Clearly you didn't know the history of Bretts tank yet you made such harsh comments without really knowing the tank set up. It's obvious it's because he is *new* you are assuming he doesn't know anything.
I personally have found myself to be alienated from many on this board because I chose to say how I feel and not sit back in the shadows and be intimidated by people. When my husband or myself make posts for the most part they are ignored by what we refer too as *The Clique* and that is fine because I have a lot of other great people on this board that have been most helpful. When I seeing people being chased away because of people on this board and the comments they chose to make it makes me sad as I would think we would all want to simply enjoy this wonderful hobby and share everything with everyone that wants to know.
It's a sad reputation WMAS is getting because the actions of a select few. Which unfortunately are also leaders. It's pretty sad when I get people sending me Pm's that they totally agree with me but don't want to put themselves out there because of the way they may be treated. Or other pm's from people saying " You might not want to say anything because you will put yourself in a bad light".
We are all equals right? Nobody is better then the next, not in my eyes at least and that is exactly how some of you all are making others feel.
Pam
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kody72
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 3:23pm |
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+1
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BnK
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Joined: February 05 2011
Location: Layton,Ut
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 3:29pm |
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You know Im agreeing fully on these comments from pam and troy. This board is like high school. Im about done. I bite my tongue on alot of things. I understand people helping. I know alot of these guys have been doin this along time. i respect that. Im done biting my tongue. I wish I wouldnt of deleted that pm I got since I though it was out of line. also what is a bunch of crap is when people go back and edit there comment to make others look bad when they reply. Since this happend to me before. I guess I will just private message certain people on here for help and not post anymore. Then I dont have to deal with the crap.Maybe think about givin advice and keepin it at that if they want to use it let them if they dont then that is there decision. Thanks kody also.
Edited by BnK - April 22 2011 at 3:30pm
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ptronsp
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Joined: November 09 2010
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 4:02pm |
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And BTW I think Mark should make the PM's he sends to people that are insulting, belittling, and down right RUDE public so people can make their own judgment! NOBODY has a right to make another person feel as if hey are not as smart as them!!! NOBODY!
Pam
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Mark Peterson
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Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 4:11pm |
Mark, Troy was the one that made the last post, not me. As far as
your comment of maybe finding it comforting and enlightening to talk to
someone I find that to be a condescending comment and I don't appreciate
it. Just because my opinions and feeling are different then yours does
not mean I need your comments. It was rude. Pam -- Previous Private Message -- Sent by : Mark Peterson Sent : 12 April 2011 at 5:18am
Hello Pam, It appears that you are very offended by this. If I were
in your shoes, I would be too. You might find it comforting and
enlightening to talk to someone about it. Mark -- Previous Private Message -- Sent by : ptronsp Sent : 11 April 2011 at 8:42pm
Mark, I don't need you to explain anything to me. -- Previous Private Message -- Sent by : Mark Peterson Sent : 11 April 2011 at 6:32pm Hello Pam, I didn't come to that meeting to talk about the RT. I came to see an old
friend give a presentation about something that was of great value to
me. A few days previous, I had asked Burt to pass on the
announcement of the Reef Tour. Terence invited me to stand and out of
courtesy I stood up.
FYI, In the 15 year tradition of the Reef
Tour, we have never refused anyone. The Reef Tour is a very big thing
that the WMAS does for the community and for the ocean. Overall it seemed to go very well. Did you enjoy the RT? Please call me or have Troy call me so I can help you understand what has happened here and why.  Mark 435-229-5614
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Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Snowsrfr
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Joined: September 04 2005
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 4:27pm |
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Pam,
You are the bravest person on this forum and I choose to no longer just sit back "in the shadows". Shortly after becoming a guest on the board many years ago, I was verbally bashed behind my back at a predidency meeting I believe it was due to the fact that I honestly answered a question concerning membership that a member of the presidency had posted. Most recently, I had several people from the board, one being either an outspoken member or member of presidency, I was not told which go to Ryan at Aquatic Dreams telling him, that I was bashing him on the boards because of a post I made in a thread about the new store in Ogden. That's why I'm so afraid to get involved in this club because it is so clique and you never know who you'll get backstabbed by next.
I've personally been on the receiving end of Marks snide comments both on the forums and via PM over the years. Oddly, he has actually been helpful to me but always via PM. Maybe he's making his stand as alpha reef keeper.
I found it amazing that he knew exactly what was wrong with Brett and Kritine's tank without actually seeing it. They have tons of beautiful corals that are thriving and made me a bit envious. I sure didn't go over there with all the answers because I don't pretend to have them. I went over there as one reef keeper to another and gave him advice based on what I saw, have experienced myself, etc. Will this solve all there problems? Who knows? Did I belittle them and tell them to stop there sadistic ritual of "killing these animals"? I sure hope I didn't leave them with that impression. I do appreciate the $60 for the house call though!
Now comes the time when the presidency comes together, tells all parties that we are being too sensitive, blah, blah, blah. So much is done via PM on this board to avoid this kind of crap but the presidency will continue to turn a blind eye. They are fine with how things are operating as long as the due from members keep coming in and the main clique that keeps this machine rolling stays intact.
Bret
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"A fish tank is not a pet. It's a TV that you gotta feed." - John Caparulo
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jcoulter17
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 4:27pm |
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Mark, out of all people your presidency. What are private messages if you post on the board?
What's the point your trying to get at doing this? Are you really trying to get people away from this club?
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bstuver
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Joined: April 17 2006
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 4:28pm |
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Oh Mark I am with Pam on this I have received PM's in the past from you as well. I was going to stay out of this as it is just easier but wow you sure know how to make a new guy around here feel unwanted! I am in the same boat as Pam I tend not to agree with you on everything and for that I get criticized and belittled. I know there are several more PM's you have sent to Pam that are very condescending treating her like because she is a woman she has no say.
I won't post on here anymore either when I have a problem as Mark seems to have an "answer" for everything and it is never nice or said in a decent way.
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Jackie Stuver
"wait these aren't the happy Hawaiians oompa doompa godly heaven on your face zoas? I dont want them then. lol!" Ksmart
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Snowsrfr
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 4:30pm |
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On a positive note, Brett and Kristine it was a pleasure to meet you and view your tanks. If I can ever be of any help with anything just give me a shout. 801-663-3037.
Bret
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"A fish tank is not a pet. It's a TV that you gotta feed." - John Caparulo
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ptronsp
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 4:40pm |
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Snowsrfr, (Bret) thank you very much. I couldn't agree with you more!
Pam
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Kristine Woolsey
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 4:51pm |
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It was great meeting you too. It's good to have some people who actually see our tanks and know we are not trying to kill fish :-P you and your wife should come over for drinks sometime!
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BnK
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 4:54pm |
Thank you so much bret it helped alot to put my mind at ease and you are welcome any time to come by.And I would love to come by and see your tank sometime. And pam,kody,jackie,and josh thanx also. Glad to know there are people that will come and help. And hope you buy a nice coral for your tank bret with that money 
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Snowsrfr
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 5:06pm |
Sorry Brett, nothing you said made any sense to me as all I can concentrate on now is the invitation for drinks from your wife! 
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"A fish tank is not a pet. It's a TV that you gotta feed." - John Caparulo
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wickedsnowman
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 5:35pm |
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See there is supportive people on this board. I hope you guys dont leave I have enjoyed seeing your posts, build threads and such. I hope my advice ive ever given didn't came off as condescending or rude. I think you have a genuine passion for the hobby and dont intentionally kill these guys. Sh#t happens... fact of the matter is nobody knows everything about this hobby. It wasn't that long ago people couldnt keep any corals captively. We have come a long way in the last decade or two. So in a sense were all learning. As far as whats best for the world. IMO if you have passion and good intentions that's all someone could ask for. 99% of the people in the world could care less about fish, coral and reefs or saving them.
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 5:53pm |
I'll join in for a bit.
I kind of agree with Pam. I know Mark is trying to help, but sometimes he.... lacks tact? I've told him many times that he's an idiot. So much so that he stopped listening  . But the truth is he is just trying to help. I can tell you that in my years as president I'd receive lots of complaints about Mark (he wasn't on the top of the list, but close) but at the same time I'd receive lots of compliments about him (probably more than any other person). I even put him in time out a couple times and locked his account for 48 hours.
One thing I guess I do disagree on with Pam is the clique thing. That's one thing this club has done very well is avoiding things like that. We have new people all the time getting involved and becoming very active in the club. Heck every month at dinner we have new people joining. I get calls from other clubs asking how we stay drama free. With such a high turnover in the hobby we just seem to avoid it. Heck, even the presidency has about a third turnover every year. Our presidency certainly isn't a clique, just look at how many new people we have in this year's presidency compared to only one or two years ago.
It's sad when drama comes up and feelings get hurt. I hope we can all get past whatever grudges are out there and continue to help all the other wonderful hobbyists who love marinelife.
Let's all try to get along, and well, make the best of the hobby.
Adam
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Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
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BobC63
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 6:02pm |
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I will agree with you guys on 1 thing and defend Mark on 1 thing-
Many times Mark's "advice" posts do come off as condesending or maybe even rude.
I will defend him by saying he is truly one of the all-around nicest people you will EVER meet in person and I truly believe he is not intentionally trying to ridicule or offend anybody.
I just think he can't visualize how what he writes appears to others...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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BnK
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 6:49pm |
lol @ bret we BBQ alot in the summer and have get togethers so I will let you know. @ wicked no your all good like I said lil critisism is good think it is just the way it is written. Like I said I appreciate this forum it has helped us alot. I just wont be as active on the boards since I dont want to deal with it. I got some good friends that ive met on here and will go to for help. And look at other forums when I google since I belive they are also informative.Thanx to everyone for the help they have givin us. 
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ptronsp
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 6:56pm |
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I think the bottom line is Mark needs to quite sending pm's to people that are rude. Telling them he is angry with them and that they need to quite killing things, and maybe this hobby is not for them since they don't have the patience or know how like he does. THAT IS JUST WRONG!
There have been several pm's sent that were completely out of line, not just one.
I want everyone to feel as though they can come to the boards and feel welcome and free to ask whatever question they have, whether that be dumb to one it isn't to another. Just show respect and kindness. Not everyone is as Educated as the next, there is room for all.
I guess that is my biggest pet peeve is someone making someone else feel as if they are not as *good* at them, no matter the reason. Mark has personally sent a couple of pm's to me telling me to have Troy (my husband) call him so he could explain it to him so Troy could then turn around and explain it to me! Completely uncalled for. What is he implying. I would just publicly like to ask Mark to please quit sending me PM's if they are going to be in this manner.
Pam
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BnK
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Posted: April 22 2011 at 6:58pm |
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+1
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