Utah Reefs Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Acro
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Acro

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
phinfan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 22 2010
Location: Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Acro
    Posted: August 11 2011 at 1:19pm
I am having a heck of a time getting the color back in an acro frag I bought from happycoral.com.  I am beginning to wonder if I need to be using a calcium reactor to enjoy that success.  (I know it would help but, is it possible without one).  

Is it common practice to keep an sps dominant tank using t5's?  I am beginning to wonder if t5's only may be contributing.   Anyone up in the Ogden  area that  is running t5's and not using a calcium reactor, having success, and would like to show off your tank, please send me a pm. 
Back to Top
Jeremyw View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: April 09 2009
Location: Utah County
Status: Offline
Points: 8513
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeremyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2011 at 1:23pm
Yes it is common practice. I have seen some (like my brothers) and they are gorgeous!

What are your params. That will decide, are you dosing a ton, if so yes get a reactor to save time and money in the long run.

I always say SPS can take up to 1 year after its in my tank to gain its true or final color!

What color is yours right now? Are the polyps extending on it?
Back to Top
Snowsrfr View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 04 2005
Location: North Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 3645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snowsrfr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2011 at 1:54pm
I PM'd ya back.

Ca reactors are awesome, but not necessary until you start getting into the SPS "dominated" side of reefkeeping. Even still you can get the same results from dosing two part, but you'll be dosing a lot of it, and that gets expensive. Elite-Aquatics makes great reactors at a more than fair price. From the sounds of it, you should be able to get away with just two part dosing for now.
Back to Top
bur01014 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1435
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2011 at 4:00pm
do you have a pic?
 
I run t5s and my tank is SPS dominated....while dosing 2-part (im cheap and use baking soda and ice melt)....so I think you could get great colors without have a CA reactor.
 
Need some more info...
 
-Number of T5 bulbs
-Which bulbs, how long since they have been changed
-Water parameters...Ca, Alk, phosphate, nitrate
-Picture  (would like a pic when bought and a current pic):  Different lighting will affect corals differently....commonly seen T5s=more pastel color corals..
-Placement...where is the coral at, how long have you had it, etc....
-Describe your flow...and the flow the coral is getting.
 
Sorry for all the random questions and requests, but these will help us help you!
 
Just do your best with the information/pics you can provide and we'll discuss further.
 
 


Edited by bur01014 - August 11 2011 at 4:01pm
Back to Top
phinfan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 22 2010
Location: Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2011 at 8:42pm
8 bulbs
less than a year
parameters good  cal 400-460, mag 1350, alk 8.0-9-6,nitrates 10, ph 8.3
I have tried placing in a couple different spots, currently near the top. I have had it for a few weeks.
2 koralia 4's, top corners of tank, mag 9,5 return pump

I will post a picture when I can
Back to Top
bur01014 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1435
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2011 at 9:39pm
bulb brand and color of the 8....

describe the color of the coral now....light and faded? or browned out?

My initial response would be:
You've had a coral a "few weeks" and have tried it in multiple spots.....this alone will cause the coral to lose color.....I would place the acro near the top with tons of flow and not touch it for 6 months....take pics to watch if colors change...




Edited by bur01014 - August 11 2011 at 9:41pm
Back to Top
phinfan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 22 2010
Location: Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2011 at 9:33am
probably browned out, at least for the most part.

Geissman bulbs, front to back

pure actinic
aqua blue +
actinic +
midday
aqua blue +
actinic +
aqua blue +
pure actinic

polyps do extend, although not much, unless that is common for this type of acro.  I cannot remember what it was called when I ordered it.  The supplier has been contacted, but hasn't given me the name of it.
Back to Top
bur01014 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1435
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2011 at 12:25pm
Next time you do a bulb change I would suggest running ATI and adding a bit more blue to the tank for color enhancment of stony corals.
 
(if I remember correctly, I believe your running Icecap ballasts, which overdrive the bulbs, causing them to wear quicker, so I would probably suggest a change between 6-9 months)
 
If the coral appears browned out this either means the coral is getting not enough light or there is an excess amount of nutrients in the tank.
 
As previously stated, for now, place the coral on the top half of the tank with plenty of light and let be for 4-6 months.
 
More Questions:
1. Does your tank have any algae? hair, bubble, etc.?
2. How often to you have to clean your glass to keep it clean?
3. How often do you trim back your macro algae?
4. Are you running GFO or some type of Phosphate remover?
5. What is your Ca and Alk consumption rate? How much do you dose? etc.?
6. Did this particular coral show brilliant color in your own tank?  Or are you comparing the coral to the picture of the seller?  (keep in mind many sellers run straight royal blue leds to show off appearance)
7. Take a magnifying glass and look closely at the coral?  Any signs of pests? eggs? tissue recession?
8. Was the coral dipped before entry into your tank?
9. Explain your lighting period....length lights are on.
10. List fish inhabitants
11. Describe the coloring performance of your other stony corals
12. List everything that you dose and water change frequency
 
Sorry for the many questions.
 
Based on your answers I will give you my recommendation of what to try, in order to improve the coloration of this coral.  I know for a fact, time and hands out of the tank, will be a part of my recommendation.
Back to Top
fishnfresh View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: July 29 2011
Location: Layton
Status: Offline
Points: 1425
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fishnfresh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2011 at 1:31pm
I think Geissman bulbs are great and would stick with them, only setup I seen with ATI's that I like is bret's in ogden. His tank is very clean and has great growth with not alot of the blue look. If you are liking the blue look then I would say go for it. But i personally dont care much for it. His colors pop alot. I would like to see a tank side by side with the different bulbs. Not sayin ATI are bad I think they are up there with Geismann.But I doubt that is the problem.Sps are tempermental I moved alot from one tank to another about a month ago and they all browned out and were pissed. They are starting to color back now.Just putting out more info for you, not sayin bur01014 is wrong in anything he has stated. I just think Geismann are very good bulbs.
Also for flow you said two koralia 4s at the top corners. Are they pointed across at each other? or at front of tank?

could you post a pic of the acro in question?
Back to Top
bur01014 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1435
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2011 at 1:42pm
Giesemann are great bulbs, you are correct.  However, I suggested ATI because of two reasons. 

1. They put out the most PAR and are generally less expensive.  (oops 2 reasons there)
2. I believe he is running t5s on icecap ballasts, which overdrives the bulbs.  From the research that I've done, ATI bulbs will generally retain their PAR longer when being overdriven than any other bulb.

Either way, you really can't go wrong with either bulb brand.  I am partial because of the above reasons.



Back to Top
bur01014 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1435
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2011 at 1:47pm
It is also important to note : blue light does initially change the appearance of SPS corals (the pop!) but, research has shown that on many SPS corals, the actual color will change/morph throughout time when receiving high amounts of PAR from lighting that emits a wavelength between (420-520 nm).   The theory behinds this evidence is largely explained by the amount of sunlight that emits blue wavelengths due to the depth of the water.  
Back to Top
phinfan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 22 2010
Location: Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2011 at 6:34pm
I just took some pictures of the acro in question, as well as some other pictures of the other inhabitants.  I do not have time to play the upload game right now, but to those of you that have chosen to respond, please stay tuned, I will get the pics as soon as possible.

To answer a couple of the ?'s now.

No problem with algae.  I do have a couple of bubble algae in the sump and a very small cluster on the zoa rock.

I do not have to clean the glass of much algae at all ie: corraline, just the film as I call it from the phyto feast that I feed.

I haven't trimmed any macro since I started the tank just after Christmas.  I have been a little concerned about that.  I just recently posted that concern.  Caulerpa groing, but not to the extent that I have to remove any of it.  Chaeto, I will say has maybe doubled in size, but again I haven't had to cut it back.

No gfo or phosphate remover, Although I did just purchase a phosphate checker.  first test 0 , second test .004.

Cal and Alk consumption rate is random.  I thought I was zeroing in on a consistent dosing patern, but I will go days without having to address mag,  I probably dose Alk the most, but still inconsistent.  Today I will dose 5 tsp of Alk,  1/2 cup of Cal.

I am comparing the picture of the Acro from the vendor to it's current color.  I have talked to him, which is why I purchased the phosphate checker.

Of course he didn't disclose the fact that he was using special lighting to advertise his corals.

no apparent problems as far as pests on the Acro

Yes, the Acro was dipped

Lights on at 1000  off at 2200,  sump reverse daylight

Yellow tang. second fish added quite a while ago.
recent additions: mandarin, 2 saddleback clowns, harlequin shrimp, blonde naso tang, blue tang.  All doing well happy, happy happy, as are all the rest of my corals.

I am currently dosing Mag from BRS and Part A,B from Kent marine and fuel 2 times a week.

recently did a water change, but have done at least 1 a month since I got it up and running.

thanks for your help.  I understand that Acro's are the most difficult, but since I have experienced the success with everything else, I wanted to jump into the Acro arena to see where that would take me.  I think may preference is still LPS, especially with this challenge that I am facing.  Although, I would like to complement the look of the tank with a couple brilliant colored Acro's.

Thanks again

 
Back to Top
Snowsrfr View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 04 2005
Location: North Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 3645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snowsrfr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2011 at 6:56pm
How often are you dosing phyto feast? How often, what quantity of foods do you feed your fish. Given what's been divulged in this thread it sounds like an excess nutrient problem. Without a skimmer, or any other real nutrient export tools in use, that's what I suspect.

I'm here in Ogden and would be more than willing to come take a look and see if there's anything out of the ordinary. Plus gives me a chance to check out your set up.
Back to Top
phinfan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 22 2010
Location: Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2011 at 7:51pm
Bret,  I would welcome a visit.  
Let me know what works for you.  I am feeding phyto daily, small squirt, and every other day I am feeding roti feast or oyster feast.  I feed  2 times a day since I added more fish.  Formula 2, and mysis or spirulina.  I was feeding once a day.
Back to Top
bur01014 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1435
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2011 at 10:46pm
with that feeding schedule and what else you have described, sounds like a excess nutrient problem...with that much feeding your chaeto should be doubling every few weeks...

what animals are you feeding the liquid foods too? (phyto, roti, and oyster)

what kind of lights you have over your cheato?

do you run a skimmer?

My overall advice would be to place the acro high, in high flow, cut feeding in half, increase waterchange frequency, and stick to using the liquid foods (and aminos) once a week.  Those types of foods have a lot of phosphates and really only should be fed multiple times a week if you are housing sponges.  (clams also benefit, but don't need near as much)

I would also throw a 6500k cfl lamp above your cheato to get that stuff growing...

You are feeding a fair amount, cheato isn't growing, and you are not necessarily changing a ton of water consistently....so I can only assume the tank has an excess of nutrients.

Good luck and hopefully those that can personally view your tank can provide more advice.

*keep in mind, this is just my advice and others may have a difference in opinion
Back to Top
Snowsrfr View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 04 2005
Location: North Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 3645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snowsrfr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2011 at 11:56pm
PM me your number and I'll give you a call tomorrow and see if we can work out a time to get together.
Back to Top
phinfan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 22 2010
Location: Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2011 at 1:06am
801-479-8226 home
801-540-0729 cell
Back to Top
badfinger View Drop Down
Guest
Guest


Joined: May 18 2009
Location: Murray, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 2079
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2011 at 10:04am
Ya know rick I agree with what everyone has already said. It takes most of my acros 6 months to a year to truly color up. But you have seen my setup, and I run all t5s and no calcium reactor. But I do use kalk in all of my top off water. And in the 2 years my sump has been in use I have only thinned my cheato twice.

Your lights are also pushing out a lot of lights, with my t5s I can grow any sps on my sandbed. And usually the sps on my sandbed will color up quicker then if I move them up higher. In fact, if I put a sps frag at the top of my tank, the frag will bleach out for a few months before any color returns.

Your tank has been up and running for 6 months or so right?... I don't think a tank has truly matured until 2 years in, at the least. I really need to make it up to see your tank, just don't make it that way into ogden that often.

Oh and as bur said about your refugium light, when I changed mine from a home depot special to a dual t5 setup, my cheato growth exploded
Back to Top
russianrick View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: July 30 2011
Location: Spanish Fork
Status: Offline
Points: 210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russianrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2011 at 10:42am
I hope this is kosher, but I also have a question about acros. My tale is a tale of two acros that both came from the same place. They were actually tangled up one in the other when I got them. One was perfectly healthy, and the other had a few dead branches, several of which I snapped off before adding the coral to my tank since they were already experiencing algae growth. Here are the pics. First the healthy one.
And next, the less than healthy one.

They are both placed under a 150w 10kk metal hallide as well a my two HO T5's (full actinic and 50/50, 55w each). I originally had the sick one in the sand bed a few inches lower in the water column, but have since moved it up closer to the surface of my 26" deep tank.

I have never had sps corals before and I don't know much about them, but does the sick one look like it could recover? Is there anything I should do with it? Is there a reason the other one is doing fine but this one seem to be dying? Thanks, in advance, for your input.
In Soviet Russia, Fish collect YOU!
Back to Top
CapnMorgan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar
The Capn'

Joined: August 19 2009
Location: Tooele
Status: Offline
Points: 3537
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2011 at 10:55am
Acros can be finicky and sometimes will die with no real definitive cause. What are you water parameters? The white areas of the sick one are dead and should be cut off  so that only flesh covered coral is left. I hate to say it but the future is pretty bleak for the second one.
Steve
My Old 180G Mixed Reef
Currently:
120G Wavefront Mixed
29G Seahorse & Softies
Running ReefAngel Plus x2
435-8
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.703 seconds.