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Rufessor's 57 Gallon Oceanic Rimless build

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 2:42pm
Ok so some progress has been made...

I finished up a few big things in the build.  I removed all the paint on the sump, which is a new 40 breeder but had been fully painted on three sides, and its was a bit of a runny paint job and I did not want it fully painted, so for asthetics it all came off and I painted the left side covering up where the Macro will grow, since that has a lot of light it will be ugly and I don't care and want algae to grow but I don't need to see it.  That leaves the rest of the sump crystal clear so I can see debris and clean it up.  

I also painted the rear of the tank along the water line and lower, with a black.  Here is shot of the tank fully cleaned up and painted with the sump in the bottom of the stand.



You can just make out that the left side of the sump (1/3 or so) is painted as the glass reflection is gone.  I LOVE the tank painted like this!!!

I left the overflow/weir glass on the back of the tank unpainted so I can see in there.  Its now plumbed with a Durso standpipe and a return, and it better be right because its ALL glued..



Only thing bugging me... IF you look at the return, the right side (from the back) is plumed from 3/4 at the "T" to 1/2 inch over the top of the Durso (yes I can get the top off... I have room), which was the plan.  So I did that side and then went to finish the left, but because its so close to the cutout in the overflow I could not go down to 1/2 inch pipe without having a few inches sticking into the tank and then the loc line...which looked bush league...  So I had to run a very short piece of 3/4 inch directly to the loc line, which means that the left side uses 3/4 pipe and the right 1/2 inch...  unfortunate plumbing decision, but I started going with the 1/2 inch line finished that side and discovered I could not do the same to the other side and needed to use 3/4 so thats how it goes, and it was all glued.  In the end I decided its unlikely to materially effect flow rate since pump is only 1/2 and I am splitting that to a 3/4 and a 1/2 both with nominal to zero back pressure... if its to fast on the 3/4 line I will just shove a piece of 1/2 inch tube in there to throttle it back to the same size.  No consequence, but I almost started over to fix it.


Finally, a picture of the tank with the returns complete.  I should have it finished this evening.  Will post pics with water in it to test everything soon.   MOVE DAY IS FRIDAY after Turkey day.  


Edited by rufessor - November 21 2011 at 2:56pm
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler -A.E.
57 Gallon RImless build in progress check the thread before if becomes boring and just full of nice pictures of colorful coral!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2011 at 8:49am

It took a good long while (probably 7-8 hours) to plumb the whole system, but I am probably way too anal and have everything tight and aligned just the way I want it.  I plan one trip to Home Depot to get a bigger end for my Reverse Durso in the skimmer compartment.  I have the tank overflow split into two segments as I diagramed, more or less, the cheato chamber is throttled throttled back in terms of flow and is quiet but has a few bubbles coming out, not sure if I should care...  

ANyone have a comment here... would appreciate it.  I will post to prompt answers.

Here it is sitting full... door is just set into opening for picture, so its not aligned perfectly... 



Edited by rufessor - November 22 2011 at 9:23am
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler -A.E.
57 Gallon RImless build in progress check the thread before if becomes boring and just full of nice pictures of colorful coral!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2011 at 8:52am
Here is a pic of the sump with the skimmer running.  Note that its in pure tap water, no salt, no organics proteins etc... so I am assuming this is normal bubble behavior in the absence of any surfactants... or should it be making a creamy froth in pure water????




Edited by rufessor - November 22 2011 at 9:10am
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler -A.E.
57 Gallon RImless build in progress check the thread before if becomes boring and just full of nice pictures of colorful coral!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksmart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2011 at 2:35pm
Your tank is looking really awesome! And yes that looks like normal bubble behavior in fresh water.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2011 at 7:37am
Your tank look great and super clean design.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2011 at 10:02am
Thanks! 

Here is a picture of the completed plumbing components, from left to right we have the pump return plumbing.  The split from the overflow on the left to the Fuge with Cheato and a smaller "Reverse durso" silencer, this side gets about 30% of the flow- while the right side to the tank overflow goes to the skimmer chamber and has a much bigger "reverse durso" to silence the overflow.  I had to make one modification to the right side main overflow, the up tube from the silencer now has a 45 turn at the top and a 6 inch extension tube that now points straight up.  I was getting a bit of bubbles coming out the top and spraying water around.  With the addition of a 45 turn to vertical and the extra 6 inches of height I have a nearly silent overflow and no spray.  Filter sock fits over large silencer with all the pieces, barely... but it fits.  The sock also helps to eliminate completely any noise or bubbles.  

You will notice that things are very slightly different from the pic of the Sump above... I spent a LONG time playing with things to quite down the overflow and here is what I now think is the best design.  I spent a while on-line looking at things and stole the 45 degree idea but never really copied anything piece for piece (what would be the fun of that).  So....
I believe (and trust me I played with this a LOT)- that it is crucial to have your main overflow line come into the T at a 45 degree angle to best separate the air/water mix.  It makes a huge difference from the more typical straight vertical design.  




Edited by rufessor - November 28 2011 at 10:04am
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler -A.E.
57 Gallon RImless build in progress check the thread before if becomes boring and just full of nice pictures of colorful coral!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2011 at 10:12am
Ahhh... 

After taking 3 days to do the move...

Day 1- 5 gallon water change from Biocube into 57 gallon with sump.  1 bag of salt (for 50 gallon water) plus another 3 cups or so, and a whole lot of RO water.  Tank on, pumps on, skimmer running.  Heater on and leave it overnight.

I would post a picture of a 1/2 full tank with salt in the water but really... 

Day 2-  Move each rock to new tank and place on bare bottom.

Day 2- 8:30 pm-2 am... rearrange all the rock, trying not to break anything (hahahha...) my red branching montipora is now basically a flat mound with all the branches pruned... it by far suffered the worse for the move, but will be fine.  

Day 3- Rinse incredibly well, 15 lbs of Argonite medium reef sand.  Add to tank around rocks and in open areas.  Rinse incredibly well, 15 lbs of Argonite Puka shell sand.  Overtop reef sand.

TAKE PICTUREs...



And I must show the lights I am running on my sweet new tank...  ARE YOU JEALOUS.

To the right we feature the BioCube 29 PC light top...
To the left we feature 2x Panorama Modules (EcoXotic) one 455 nm Blue, one mixed blue white.

Lights are on a 12 hour rotation, swap side to side.... until I can get my new lights built.  Which may be a few weeks... might go to a 24 hour light cycle if needed, swap side to side every 12..




Edited by rufessor - November 28 2011 at 10:20am
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler -A.E.
57 Gallon RImless build in progress check the thread before if becomes boring and just full of nice pictures of colorful coral!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2011 at 10:47am
Can I just comment on how incredibly inept I feel.  

I rearranged the rock work a bit on the left side... and I swear to god.  I HATE MOVING LIVE ROCK more than anything.  It took me literally 2 hours to place TWO pieces of rock just right with support to get a nice cave and not destroy any coral.  Absolutely the most incredibly tedious maddening thing, you have it almost perfectly where you want it... glue a coral on and move something, then hate it and try to find the position you had where three pieces fit together perfectly and it took an additional 2 hours to find that position again... ARGHHHHHHHHHH


But its done now... My wife thinks I am very very special.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ptronsp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2011 at 1:32pm
*Deep Breath* Matt... hahah. It is really looking nice. I have to add Troy hates when I get in the mood to change rocks around ( YES rocks guys ) I sit and tell him what to do .. (what women do best) and he gets so aggravated because it has to be just right.... . And then when it comes to scaping we are both perfectionists.

It will be great following the grow out!
Pam


The only clowns I like are in my tank!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2011 at 3:16pm
Thanks!  

I am super excited.  I ended up deciding that the bridge lighting I was using, although amazing.. was not enough.  Even the Zoas were getting skinny and "reaching" for the light.  So- thanks to the generosity of a Utah Reefs participant... I have a dual 96W T5 36 inch light sitting on the egg crate... and the tank now looks really really beautiful... the corals also seemed to immediately open a bit more and I suspect that their colors will be back in full in a few hours as it was only a couple days with poor light.  

One thing I note... the live stock seem to love the space.  My pistol shrimp has been endlessly busy excavating the entire left side of the tank in and among the rocks and his buddy the watchman goby now loves perching all over the rubble and rock.  He is also super bold now, and will openly swim across the entire tank during feeding, even in the Biocube he never ventured far from home.  He is either hungry or feels like the tank is empty and "safe".

I will post a pic with real lights and the new rock formation.  I listed my BioCube and hope to buy the LED components next week and get the true hood built and installed in a few weeks, then I will feel like its project complete.  That and an ATO... ahhh... can you say almost 2 gallons a day!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bstuver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2011 at 8:04pm
Looking good:) Are you building a canopy that will sit all the way on? If so why? Isn't the point of this tank because it is rimless? :) Or just something to cover your light build that will be hung above it?
Jackie Stuver

"wait these aren't the happy Hawaiians oompa doompa godly heaven on your face zoas?   I dont want them then. lol!" Ksmart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2011 at 9:34pm
The canopy as pictured in prior posts will be suspended 6-8 inches from the ends of the tank. So the middle will end up about 12 inches up. Working on a design to rim the tank with acrylic to hold a fish net I place and also seeing if I can work in some posts in acrylic at each corner to hold the canopy up. You will definitely see the entire water surface. Still kinda trying to work out how to keep it super clean looking yet suspend the canopy. Ceiling mount won't work due to lights in ceiling and our aesthetics. And my Wife is not to hot about an arm hanging off the wall. Working with Tyler at elite aquatics to see if we can get something good in place. Based upon his work I am sure it will end up just about perfect.   The only finished part of the build at this point is plumbing. I have to do a bunch of work in the cabinet to get wiring worked out more formally and the top and lights are whatever I had in the garage with a very generous loaner T5 light until I get me LEDs built.
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57 Gallon RImless build in progress check the thread before if becomes boring and just full of nice pictures of colorful coral!
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like it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bstuver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2011 at 11:27pm
Oh geez sorry I completely forgot I had seen pics of the canopy before:) Cool it's going to look really cool.
Jackie Stuver

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2011 at 10:26pm
YEEESSSSS

Guess what was waiting for me when I got home from work??

I very small box... full of.... very small LED's and a bunch of other electronics

I ended up changing the lighting design, as I had way too many LEDs and was using old information on color mixing and best color rendition in tanks.  

I ended up using a 4:7:1 ratio of 

Cree XP-G Neutral white : Cree XP-E Royal Blue : Cree XP-E Blue

I found some sweet Cree Bins... Got the following

28 Cree XP-E Bin 316 Royal Blue, 450 nm wavelength (lowest bin possible) and highest lumens possible from Cree.  These ROCK.

16 Cree XP-G Neutral white R4/4A bin, which equates to 4500-5000K color temp (the coolest of the neutral white bins) and good intensity, not R5 but more than adequate (went for color temp not intensity bin if I had to make a choice).

The XP-E blues are just whatever they had as they are supposed to be a higher wavelength bringing in some greens so that was what I wanted anyhow.  

I was going to get the XT-E Royal blues but canceled them for the XP-E when I discovered the wavelength bin on the ones I had access too was 460 ish... too high... 

Instead of three heat sinks and 6 drivers, I am going with two heat sinks and 4 drivers (mean well ELN-60-48p) which I also received today.

The LEDs are all mounted on a black star, I have all 60 degree black optics for them, black high temp wire, and should be getting my 12x7 black anodized heat sinks in the mail soon.  I will be using thermal tape to adhere the LEDs so the final build should be super super clean, all black, no globs of glue etc.  

Layout of the LEDs will be as follows, attempting to group them very tightly together into what I hope will act as 4 different point sources of well blended light.  The color mixing and mount order is shown below, RB= Royal Blue, CB = Blue, N= Neutral White

One heat sink will contain the left side or the illustration the other the right, which are mirror images.  The heat sinks will be mounted centered over their 1/2 of the 36 aquarium length.  I should have the canopy suspended about 12 over the water at the center so lights will be closer to 16 high... as a start, I doubt I need to go higher but may lower it a few inches depending on if I get spill onto the floor with the lens angles.  

----RB---------------RB---------------------------------RB--------------RB
-RB--N--RB-------RB--N--RB--------------------------RB--N--RB------RB--N--RB
N---CB---N--RB--N---CB---N--RB--TANK MIDDLE --RB--N---CB---N--R--N---CB---N 
-RB--N--RB-------RB--N--RB---------------------------RB--N--RB-----RB--N--RB
----RB---------------RB---------------------------------- RB-------------RB

Basically I am trying hard to avoid the disco ball shimmer everyone gets with dispersed arrays of LEDS carpeting the tank, which also leads to bad color rendition.  Since my lights will be at slight angles to the tank and pointing at each other towards the middle of the tank (see the arced canopy) I think I may have a nice PAR distribution and good acro growing space in the middle on the covered overflow.  We shall see... I probably spent WAY too much time researching this, but so far as I can tell, this is the ratio that is becoming dominant for color and growth (commercial fixtures are just moving this way now).  The cool whites are starting to loose favor as red rendition is generally thought to be very poor at 4:1 RB:CW whereas the 4:7:1 is showing amazing colors in the tanks that have been built this way.

I will post pics of the tank and build progress when I get the heat sinks.

For now, Thanks again to Pilot172 for the loaner light, working well and things are actually growing instead of browning out.  I should have your light back SOON! 


Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler -A.E.
57 Gallon RImless build in progress check the thread before if becomes boring and just full of nice pictures of colorful coral!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2011 at 11:10pm
Ok... I just found out the heat sinks are shipping tomorrow... if I believe them since they were supposed to ship last week.  I kinda got the feeling that I am not a typical customer, i.e. not a company, not ordering 1,000, generally about what I would have expected ordering from a fabrication company that makes components for electrical cooling in high end amplifiers etc... But I think they might have a heat sink that would work for ambient cooling of LEDs with no fan at 24 LEDs per 12x7 heat sink.  Which if my calculations are correct (and I don't believe them for a second, I get the math but this is a new field for me and my units are probably all over the place)---- would be very cool.  They have a relatively low pin density but each pin is CNC machined with 17 grooves to help with radiant cooling and I had them black anodized since black is the best color for black body radiation emission, and it actually matters (weird that this is true, but this is no myth, many raidiant heat sinks are black and the math behind its been know a very long time.  

I kinda think it might work since I read that most LED builds are massively overbuilt on the heat sink ( at least if you actually use a commercial heat sink and not DIY with home depot aluminum channel etc), so my guess is it will work out randomly (50% chance) or need a fan (50% chance)..... which is why I ordered a stealth fan kit (2 double bearing fans with speed control, which are quiet).

I plan on putting the LEDs on the heat sink, turning it on and holding my hand on it for a good 15 minutes or more.  If I can keep my hand there its good to go, if its too hot to touch, probably either need an infared thermo to actually figure out temp or just add fans (much cheaper).  LED life time degrades SIGNIFICANTLY with elevated junction temps... like 50% or more (or just plain old dead)  if your hot so its not where I want to be.  

Pictures of stuff will follow.


Edited by rufessor - December 14 2011 at 11:18pm
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler -A.E.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2011 at 12:00am
dont forget the thermal paste!!! It helps immensly for thermal transfer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2011 at 8:08am
If you are wanting to avoid the disco ball effect, ditch the optics. They will only hinder you in that attempt.

When using multiple point source lights, you are bound to have some color separation and light banding going on. It only takes the branch of an SPS or a small over hang on a rock to create the barrier need to separate the light.

I have used 3 different LED setups and all of them have light banding to some degree. The PAR38 bulb that I used with 60 degree optics, was by FAR the worst.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2011 at 9:43am
I will have two options once the LED are on the heat sink, if I get color issues I can raise the fixture or add a diffuser or try no optics. I plan to very lightly glue them with the plan being easy removal. It's weird that I feel like there are so many unknowns going into this as hundreds or thousands of people have done this yet there are still very common complaints. I am nearly certain that my color will be ok and intensity more than necessary but very unsure of how colors will blend. All you can do is put them super close together and see how it goes. In any case I am confident I will like it, just hope I don't want to change it after its built. Thanks for advice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2011 at 12:07pm
if you look around, there is thermal glue. This is the best way to make sure all the heat is sapped from the led as its created, you may notice without it that the led will still be warmer than the heat sink.i used a tiny spot of 2 part epoxy on the "wings" of the led star with a spot of arctic silver in the center. They stay on and still stay cool. My heat sing is pretty thin but even without fans, it doesnt get too hot to touch but i dont run them 100%.
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