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Mark Peterson 
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 Posted: April 06 2012 at 11:46am |
I never had that kind of trouble with Utah Sand and I practically invented the stuff!  Thanks a bunch for the pics.  That algae is a combination of Diatoms and Dinoflagellates. That indicates extra silica in the tank. I would switch out the GFO to use Activated Alumina. From what location did you get the sand? How much dust or crud comes up when the sand is stirred? I recall that you told us at one time you were feeding invert foods very heavy in an attempt to keep all the Sponge alive. It can take a while to see a decrease in the organisms that bloomed because of overfeeding. How long have you lately stopped all feeding? If you have gone a week without feeding and that algae is still there, then I am certain it is extra silicates. A great proportion of Sponge is silica!  Yep. So when there are a lot of Sponge added to the tank and they, in natural course, die off a little (or a lot) the algae that like it best are Diatoms and Dinoflagellates. It makes the tank look like it's brand new because the dust has very usable Silicates. The silica is quickly incorporated in the Diatomaceous algae which when it dies off becomes undissolvable microscopic particles in the substrate. (diatomaceous earth is used as a fine filtration media) Activated Alumina is the answer because it removes Silicates as well as PO4. 
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bur01014
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Posted: April 06 2012 at 12:02pm |
 Mark Peterson wrote:
I never had that kind of trouble with Utah Sand and I practically invented the stuff!
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That's what microsoft told me when I demanded they replace my control, alt, and delete keys after being prematurely worn from overuse... I say give Mark's suggestion a shot, it it works, awesome, if it doesn't change out the sand...keep us updated with the status of your tank regardless of what you do to resolve this issue!
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BobC63
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Posted: April 06 2012 at 12:31pm |
Mark Peterson wrote:
I never had that kind of trouble with Utah Sand and I practically invented the stuff!
Thanks a bunch for the pics. That algae is a combination of Diatoms and Dinoflagellates. That indicates extra silica in the tank. I would switch out the GFO to use Activated Alumina.
From what location did you get the sand?
How much dust or crud comes up when the sand is stirred?
I recall that you told us at one time you were feeding invert foods very heavy in an attempt to keep all the Sponge alive. It can take a while to see a decrease in the organisms that bloomed because of overfeeding.
How long have you lately stopped all feeding? If you have gone a week without feeding and that algae is still there, then I am certain it is extra silicates. A great proportion of Sponge is silica! Yep. So when there are a lot of Sponge added to the tank and they, in natural course, die off a little (or a lot) the algae that like it best are Diatoms and Dinoflagellates. It makes the tank look like it's brand new because the dust has very usable Silicates. The silica is quickly incorporated in the Diatomaceous algae which when it dies off becomes undissolvable microscopic particles in the substrate. (diatomaceous earth is used as a fine filtration media)
Activated Alumina is the answer because it removes Silicates as well as PO4.
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Mark -
I bought the sand from Matt James (Turbostud) - so I don't know the exact locale it was collected from.
I get some fine stuff coming out of the sandbed when I stir - but not alot. And no 'discoloration' or anything near the botom of the sandbed.
I have not fed any liquid sponge type foods in almost 2 months. I have cut the fish feeding down to 1 cube every 2 - 3 days for 11 fish.
I am fine with trying Alumina based pO4 remover in place of GFO for awhile.
In fact, the alumina - based seems to be much easier to find at the LFS than the GFO.
SO, I will give it a shot and report back...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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BobC63
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Posted: April 09 2012 at 10:11pm |
OK, so after running through a pound of GFO in 3 weeks and not seeing any change at all, I stopped at ReefOn today and picked up some of Extraxphos from Brightwell Aquatics. Says right on the container "removes phosphates and silicates" so we should be good  : Says to use 2 gram / gal; and since it contains 600 gm that means it treats 300g of water - so I split it into thirds (1.25 cups each third) and figured that should be good for my 100 gal - ish of water Hopefully we can say 'bye bye' to the flipping algae / dinos / cyano / diatoms / whatever the $&@#*! this stuff is 
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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GaryF
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Posted: April 09 2012 at 10:34pm |
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So I read through all the suggestions and its seems no one is suggesting to use red slime removers like chemiclean. I used chemiclean for 48 hours in my 30 gallon that I was having problems with the red slime. The tank has been red slime free for months now. Are there thoughts why people don't use the red slime removers?
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Gary Finnegan
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BobC63
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Posted: April 10 2012 at 9:44pm |
Gary, I'm pretty sure this is not the standard 'red slime' cyano so I am hesitant to use Chemi-clean on it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24 hours in, I am cautiously optimistic on the Extrax... sandbed definitely looks 'faded' and less stuff on it vs. yesterday. However, this stuff does fluctuate in intensity from day to day; so I need to see a trend of diminishing stuff for at least a couple of days in a row before I pronounce it working...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Corey Price
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Posted: April 10 2012 at 9:59pm |
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For all the Utah sand haters, I have the same issues and have NO Utah oolitic sand.
I have noticed a BIG improvement from adding sand. I'm adding another 20 lbs soon, as it really seems to help. Also, I changed refugium bulbs to get more light on the chaeto. Gotta pull some out tomorrow as it grows like crazy!
Corey
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BobC63
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Posted: April 10 2012 at 10:07pm |
My 225g had *6* full 5 gal buckets of Utah sand that I collected, screened and washed myself... probably 400 lbs worth. Never had a problem with any growth on that sandbed. My 125 had (4) 50lb bags of Carribasea that I paid over $150 for, easy... no discernable difference, IMO between it and the $25 Utah sand (that's how much in gas I spent going out to collect it) This is my first time using UT sand that I have ever had any growth issues on the sandbed. May or may not have anything to do with the sand itself.
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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BobC63
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Posted: April 12 2012 at 9:40pm |
72 hours in with the ExtraxPhos: Looks like we have a definite decrease in coverage... But still a few stubborn spots Corals look fine
This is turning more blue / purple every day
Only 'side effect' that I am seeing is this...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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ReefdUp
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Posted: April 12 2012 at 10:05pm |
GaryF wrote:
So I read through all the suggestions and its seems no one is suggesting to use red slime removers like chemiclean. I used chemiclean for 48 hours in my 30 gallon that I was having problems with the red slime. The tank has been red slime free for months now. Are there thoughts why people don't use the red slime removers?
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Gary, the red slime removers are typically erythromycin, which is an antibacterial (gram positive). Not only will it kill the cyanobacteria, but it will often also kill other bacterial (which can cause serious die-off.) It works...but sometimes works too well.
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bur01014
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Posted: April 12 2012 at 11:27pm |
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wow, thanks for the update, that is impressive. I am curious to see if it continues to recede, along with what happens when you go off the stuff.
Keep us updated!
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Trevor40
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Posted: April 23 2012 at 11:31am |
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Any updates? I'm dealing with this garbage too.
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Shayne
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Posted: April 23 2012 at 11:51am |
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I think Bob is on vacation or something.
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BobC63
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:20pm |
OK now I am BACK  So, we left off 9 days ago with a sandbed that had an algae / diatoms infestation that appeared to be receding under the use of Brightwell Aquatics ExtraxPhos alumina-based resin. How does it look today? Pretty darn GOOD: Happy to report the sandbed is completely clear  Corals are all doing well - except one (more about that later). Compare these pics of that browned-out Acro I spoke of in a previous post - Photo taken April 12th (18 days ago): Same coral today: Here are a bunch more random livestock shots from today:
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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kellerexpress
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:27pm |
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Wow that's an amazing change! Did you run the media in a reactor?
Edited by kellerexpress - April 30 2012 at 10:28pm
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IM 30L
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bur01014
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:59pm |
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yes, please share more....where did you pick the stuff up, how much did you use, reactor?
Great results! What a nice surprise after returning home from vacation!
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bur01014
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 11:01pm |
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oops, looks like your provided that info earlier...did you have to change it out yet since you first added it?
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GaryF
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Posted: May 01 2012 at 8:53am |
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What was the feeding schedule while you were gone. Did your fish get fed less? If so I wonder if this contributed to the results.
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Gary Finnegan
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Jeremyw
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Posted: May 01 2012 at 9:26am |
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Sweet! Glade that you have it cleared up finally bob!
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BobC63
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Posted: May 01 2012 at 11:26am |
Ok, here's all the details =
The stuff I am using is called ExtraxPhos and is made by Brightwell Aquatics. There is a photo of the container on the thread somewhere.
I am running it in my Phosban reactor. I modded the reactor slightly so that there are 2 smaller 'chambers' instead of 1 large chamber. (All I really did was cut the middle plastic tube in half and put one of the red round partitions and one of the black sponges halfway down the reactor, instead of leaving it at the top.) In the lower chamber I am running the ExtraxPhos. The upper chamber I am running carbon pellets.
The directions call for using approx 2 gm / gallon of water. I have approx 100 gal of water volume, so I run 200 gm at a time. I changed it out the first time after the first 3 days of use; I changed it out again after 5 more days. This is the third dose of the ExtraxPhos I am running, and this third dose has been in the reactor for 10 days now. I figured the initial doses would get used up pretty quick having to suck in the most silicates / phosphates, and that follow - up doses should last alot longer.
I bought this product from Reef ON in Midvale. I am not sure if any other stores carry it (because I haven't looked). I am now out of it, and so will be picking up another container this weekend. The container held 600 gm and cost $18 I think.
My 'maintenance' plan going forward is to cut down to a half - dose (50 gm) and add in some GFO into the reactor as well (and of course the carbon). Then go back to changing it out hopefully only once a month.
As far as feeding, my daughter said she fed the fish 1 cube every day, and dosed for alk every day (I showed her how). Generally I feed my fish only 4 or 5 times a week - so they actually may have gotten slightly more food in my absence.
I mentioned earlier I lost 1 coral. Unfortunately when I got home my prize 5" across Orange w/ blue tips Fungia (that I got from the MWRF last year) was toast 
But I do not think it had anything to do with the additon of the ExtraxPhos. When I got home I saw that half of the coral was buried under a good 1.5 inches of sand. Remeber how I said I had a ton of flow in the tank, and that my sandbed shifts over the course of several days? Well, I forgot to warn my daughter that if any sand started covering the corals on the sandbed that she would need to move them or remove the sand. The sand drift that covered the coral also covered the entire mouth of the piece, and that is what I think killed it.
Also, I had already been running the ExtraxPhos for a week or so when I went on vacation, and saw no ill effects to the Fungia or any of my other corals.
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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