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Dino Algae HELP

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    Posted: April 24 2012 at 5:43pm
The tank is 8 months old and went from cyano last month to dinos this month. It is the stringy brown algae that regress within hours of turkey basting it off the rock and coral.

I read a forum that said people have had success with stopping water changes as they believe dino survive off the minerals in fresh salt water and as they are used up the donos with starve. Anyone had success with this?


I just changed my bulbs 2 weeks ago and has seen no difference in dino growth. I changed my DI filter last week. My TDS meter read 2ppm before I changed it but I had to run the rodi for at least 10 minutes to get the tds down that low as they were around 70 before flushing it. Im thinking that could have played a role in this mess as I've read dinos use silicates for food.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as the algae is growing on a few corals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 5:48pm
I have been feeding one time a day at the most and only have 3 wrasse in the tank with lots or snails. I have been running my EA Cone skimmer all hours as well as GFO and carbon is changed out frequently.
Alk -around 8.5
Calcium- 450
Mag 4000
Phosphates were nearly undetectable but I'm not sure what number.
Nitrates- nearly undetectable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 6:42pm
Why is Mg at 4000 ppm?
Dinoflagellates usually goes away soon after they start. How long has this been going on? a full month? Was any chemical added to eliminate the Cyano?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 8:46pm
Magnesium is at 1400, sorry it was a typo. I used a red slime remover after becoming desperate and I'm wondering if it killed a lot of beneficial bacteria. It's been going on for about 3 weeks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 9:00pm
I used Red Slime Control by Blue Vet Rx. It seemed to work for about a day before the stringy brown gunk started growing rapidly. I couldn't turn my skimmer in for 2 weeks because of the medication so I kept doing water changes to make sure the dead bacteria was out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kellerexpress Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 9:33pm
Cutting back on the water changes is a good idea, and that fresh di resin is going to help. When I spoke to you recently it sounded like you hadn't changed the di in a while, and that may have had something to do with the outbreak. I have to change my di every couple months and I deal with less water than you. Others may not agree but in my experience anything other than 0 tds causes algae/cyano issues in my tanks. Also just curious what salt do you use?

I've got 2 other thoughts, first have you ever considered hydrogen peroxide? Check this thread out http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/reef-aquarium-discussion/52084-dinoflagellates-my-experience-h2o2-reefing-tool.html
If you try this start really low on the dose and watch your sps close, but if you are desperate I think it may be worth a shot.
And second something that helped me get rid of my algae problems was carbon dosing. Vinegar specifically. It doesn't sound like you have a lot of excess nutrients but it may help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 11:07pm
people that have cyano and beat it, often deal with dinos next....when algae dies off, its dying remains feed another algae....you can follow the advice from others and keep basting to keep your corals free from the algae, but likely time is all your tank will need....cyano->dinos->happy tank...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2012 at 9:32am
Kellerexpress, I agree with nothing but 0 TDS. I'm glad you came by and recomended the new DI filter. I will consider hydrogen peroxide if it lasts another week or two. I want to see if the new DI helps with no water changes first but that's definarely in the plans of the pesky algae keeps growing. It actually looks like its growing less now for I've said that before. I removed most of my chaeto that was covered and I think it's helping by removing the excess nutrients. There is a small clean peice that looks healthy.

Bur01014- I agree that donos follow cyano but with my 8 years in the hobby I've never even seem donos but maybe I just got lucky. I'm going to wait a few weeks before doing anything like you say as it seems that yesterday there was hardly any growth and my acros look like they are starting to get their color back.

I raised my Alk as I read that a higher pH helps get rid of it and my acros have better polyp extension now and the algae growth was minimum yesterday. Time will tell. The Alk is around 10 and I raises mybubble rate on the calcium reactor to keep it high.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2012 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Trevor40 Trevor40 wrote:

I used a red slime remover after becoming desperate and I'm wondering if it killed a lot of beneficial bacteria. It's been going on for about 3 weeks.
Bingo.
That's why we recommend finding the root cause of the extra nutrients rather than being impatient to use a quick killing chemical.
Smile
Fact is, new tanks sometimes go through this same Dinoflagellate growth phase while the good biofiltration catches up due to it being a new tank or as in this case the loss of Cyano or other nutrient eating algae.
Though I rarely call my comments "advice", preferring to use the softer term "suggestion", in this case my best advice would be to practice patience. Now that you have experienced what your impatience caused, perhaps it's a little easier to see why patience is such a good virtue in this hobby.

Would you like to do a little practicing right now? If that sounds good, please post a full tank pic and patiently explain the filtration of this tank, it's age, Alk, Ca, etc., so we can help you look for the root cause of the extra nutrients that are leading to these nuisance algae blooms.
Big smile


Edited by Mark Peterson - April 25 2012 at 12:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2012 at 3:39pm
Mark, thanks for confirming the cause of the donos. I will patiently explain my filtration and routine maintenance in order to find the flaw. I love how nice you tell me that I goofed up. Funny how I thought I was patient for months before adding the cyano medication. Not long enough though. I think the cyano started when a green open brain that was stressed from another tank started to die.
First off I only have 3 small wrasse in the at the moment as I lost most of my fish a few weeks after the cyano started. When the cyano started my sps corals looked happier and more colorful than ever and all my fish were fat and happy. As soon as the cyano showed its face is when my blue tang got ich and shortly after all fish but my wrasse(mystery and coris) dies one by one. I has a pair of cardinals, a Midas blenny, Naso tang, Kole Tang, and a small cromi. I fed one a day rotating pellets, Rods food and frozen mysis shrimp. I used less than half of a cube and no more than they could cobble down in a few minutes. I would add Nori every other day.

I do 5 g water changes weekly, and I have 2 filter socks that I rotate changing every 3 days so each one is on there about 6 days or until it looks discolored.

I have a Mag 16 return pump, an mp 40 turned up all the way on various modes throughout the day, an EA cone skimmer that's is emptied every 3 days due to the dark gunk it pulls out, BRS dual reactor with GFO and carbon changed monthly, Koralia calcium reactor. I have a refugium with chaeto that would get covered in cyano but would grow well possibly doubling monthly. The refugium light turns on at 9pm and turns off at 3 pm.

I scrape the class every 3 or 4 days when it has a green algae growing in it. Now it's only dinos growing on it. I use to add weekly amino acids, I think the brand is Brightwell Aquatics.

Any other info that you need? I'm thinking of keeping my fish bio load low and only adding a few more small fish and a kole tang once this is under control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kellerexpress Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2012 at 4:18pm
I think your filtration/maintenence is in good shape man. I've seen your tank and know you like to run a tight ship :). Just keep at it and this stuff will go away with time. I recently got over a horrific hair algae outbreak in my tank, so I feel your pain.( I lost most of my sps and I about shut it down. ). I would hold off on adding more fish though until it clears up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2012 at 3:39am
I agree with Kellerexpress that everything seems good, and that adding anything right now could be counterproductive to seeing the resolution to this problem, but I would still like to see a pic if that's okay.

One thing I would suggest, for now anyway and I think you said it already, is to stop doing water changes. Later, when the algae problem has abated, try 10% monthly water changes. It's better for you. It's better for them.

I've noticed that hobbyist problems with Cyano seem to be on the rise and this thing where Dinoflagellates crop up along with or following a bout of Cyano was unheard of 10 years ago. This may correlate with the advent of the GFO/AC reactor combined with the more common use of supplements. I'm inclined to suggest observing the effects of completely removing the reactor and stopping the addition of all additives except for Alk, Ca and Mg. This dual action is not altogether bad, since AC and GFO actually remove some of the chemical compounds that supplements either add and/or encourage to grow in a reef aquarium. But I ask the question, Why add things just to have them removed by the continual running of these media?

When GFO came on the scene, it was widely acclaimed as a better media for PO4 removal than Activated Alumina(AA), yet a recent Cyano/nuisance algae problem in Bob Carlson's reef seems to have abated when he switched from GFO to AA.

Another comment is that 3 Wrasses means that the herbivorous bug population (Amphipods, Copepods and a variety of other biofiltration animals, including worms like spaghetti worms) is either very small or nonexistent. These bugs and worms eat algae before we hobbyists see it. I wrote about the benefits of having a good bug population in an article I called Herbivores vs. Carnivores in a SeaStar Newsletter. Let's see, here is the link. http://utahreefs.com/SeaStar/SeaStarJunePrint.pdf

Just for interest, here is a pic I took of a giant spaghetti worm and another pic of it's home, a tide pool along my Hamakua Coast.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2012 at 11:51am
Mark Peterson,
Thanks for the respond and the pics, they are pretty sweet and I wish I lived in Hawaii. I will take the GFO topic into consideration and am thinking about getting a phosphate Hanna checker and only adding GFO once the PO4 increases above 1 or 2.
With all the algae that has been in the tank I have seen an explosion of Copepods and other organisms all over the glass and rock. I've been surprised that the wrasse haven't devoured them all in the DT. There are a lot in the refugium.

I'll post a pic later today when I get home. There was algae growth yesterday but not out of control, just enough for the snails to eat overnight. I just hate when it grows all over my green digitata.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 8:42pm
The pic isn't that great but you can see the algae growing on the acros. It makes me frustratedOuch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 8:44pm

Im not sure now exactly what kind of algae it is. It could be dinos or just plain cyano.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2012 at 9:39pm
I added Purigen in hopes that it will take all the silicates out and stop the algae. I will update in a few days and let you know what happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 10:50am
Still algae growth. I'm hoping this Purigen and no water changes works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ackbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 10:59am
just curious but what are people putting stuff like Purigen in exactly? like filtersocks or some HOB filters or something? #newb 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 11:56am
Purigen is simply two common media; Activated Carbon and Activated Alumina
AA removes silicates. AC is a must for all reef tanks because it removes chemicals/toxins that nothing else can remove. I usually run it 2 weeks/month only.
One or both of these media are placed in a floss/media bag in a good flow area, near a pump intake or in a HOB filter.
Or it can be placed in what is called a "Reactor", a fancy name for a chamber where water flows past the media.

It would help if we could see a full tank pic, please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 1:52pm
Mine came in a small bag I just placed in my sump. 
THe pics aren't that great of quality because they are with my iPhone 




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