Facebook
Twitter

Utah Reefs Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Filefish dying?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Filefish dying?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
1stupidpunk View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: June 10 2011
Location: clearfield
Status: Offline
Points: 1145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Filefish dying?
    Posted: May 11 2012 at 6:55pm
OH NO!
I just bought a filefish from Bill and he looked fine in bills refugium and in the bag, i got him home dripped acclimated and placed him into my tank. He turned over and looked as if the current was to strong and blowing him around. So i turned off the powerhead for a sec to see if he would recover, but he swims around looking dazed and slowly goes nose down and cant seem to keep afloat! I will hurry and double check all my tank params but last night everything was fine! I put him in a specimen container and have him floating with the lights off, what do i do???
Back to Top
1stupidpunk View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: June 10 2011
Location: clearfield
Status: Offline
Points: 1145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2012 at 7:13pm
PH 8.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
DKH 9
Calc 450
Salinity 1.021

Back to Top
SkylerS View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Logan
Status: Offline
Points: 262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkylerS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2012 at 8:10pm
Sg is a little low, better around 1.025 but fish generally handle salinity changes decently.  A concern is the pH of 8.0, we like our tanks around 8.2 but that's not a huge difference to affect so badly.  I'm wondering about DKH however, I know a lot of reefers like to keep their alkalinity super high, around 14 because it keeps everything more stable, if it came from a super high dkh tank, could be a cause.... But really, it's nature.  I got a perfectly healthy flame angel from the LFS, he had it for two weeks and said it ate great for him.  Died in 4 days in my tank.... Hope he makes it.
Back to Top
SkylerS View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Logan
Status: Offline
Points: 262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkylerS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2012 at 8:11pm
Oh... and less is more.  The more you tinker with him and stess him, the worse he chances will be.  
Back to Top
1stupidpunk View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: June 10 2011
Location: clearfield
Status: Offline
Points: 1145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2012 at 8:19pm
Ok, thanks for the advice, i just hope this guy makes it!
Back to Top
1stupidpunk View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: June 10 2011
Location: clearfield
Status: Offline
Points: 1145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2012 at 10:52am
Looking at him today he is breathing fine, but still not swimming, he lays on the bottom of my makeshift hospital tank. He appears to be suffering from a swim bladder problem? 
Back to Top
1stupidpunk View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: June 10 2011
Location: clearfield
Status: Offline
Points: 1145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2012 at 10:56am
Passed away during the night. Poor little fella
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2012 at 7:20pm
Sorry for the loss.
I'm also concerned about the tank with a salinity of 1.021 and pH of 8.0.
How long was it in the bag and can you describe the drip acclimation?
Big smile
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
1stupidpunk View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: June 10 2011
Location: clearfield
Status: Offline
Points: 1145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2012 at 8:03pm
Was in the bag for about an hour. I drip the same for everything. I place the new fish with the water that it came with in a clean 3 gal container, i put some airline tubing in the tank and throttle down the flow to a few drops per second. After the water doubles i take out about 1/4 of it and let the bucket fill again till the water doubles. I usually will let the water double 3-4 times depending on how the fish seems to be doing. The entire process usually takes 20-30 mins. Tested today and the salinity is 1.023 but i had just done some work on the tank, i will do a water change and get the salinity to 1.025. The pH has been constantly 8.0 for almost a year now, and i was told that since is stable and only 0.2 lower than prefered range it was better to leave than to add anything attempting to raise it? thoughts?
Back to Top
Akira View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 11 2011
Location: Sandy
Status: Offline
Points: 1600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2012 at 11:15pm
You can raise sa by adding salt water rather than r/o when you top
 off. Also do you test dk ? Oops seen you do . What was the temp in old tank and your temp? Also what is ur PO4


Edited by Akira - May 13 2012 at 11:19pm
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2012 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by 1stupidpunk 1stupidpunk wrote:

Was in the bag for about an hour. I drip the same for everything.
I'm sorry, after an hour, the O2:CO2 ratio in the bag water had changed significantly, possibly causing the pH in the bag to ~7.8 and maybe even lower.

pH is an exponential scale. For every drop of 0.1 the pH is 10 times lower.
pH is very critical to fish health.

Something less well known is that when the bag was opened, the low pH water quickly converted urea (fish waste) to Ammonia which is a fish killer. From your description, I suspect this is what affected the Filefish, leading to it's eventual death.

Also FYI, if a bag is left in the car with sun shining on the bag, it can heat up extremely fast. Within 10 minutes a fish could be cooking. Try it out yourself. Fill a clear plastic bag with air and let it sit in the sun for a few minutes. I dislike bags. Whenever possible, like when getting a fish from a hobbyist, I transfer fish in partially open buckets so that the air exchange keeps the water constantly oxygenated, allowing CO2 to escape. This avoids the risk of having fish pee turn into Ammonia.

Also, everything should not be acclimated the same.  I drip acclimate only shrimp and very large fish for some very good reasons. The slow drip acclimation of this Filefish exposed it to Ammonia for the duration of the drip.

Please read the Reefkeeping Tip "Secrets of Adding New Fish...." and pay special attention to what was said regarding acclimation, then come back here if you have any further questions.

Again, sorry for your loss. Hopefully this new information will help for the future. Big smile
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2012 at 5:03pm
BTW, with tankwater dKH at 9 and pH at 8.0 during the day, this tells me three possibilities:
1) the pH reading is inaccurate
2) the gas exchange is insufficient for this tanks needs
3) something in the tank is not decomposing fast enough because
      a) the hobbyist is overfeeding
      b) the tanks current biofiltration is insufficient
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
1stupidpunk View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: June 10 2011
Location: clearfield
Status: Offline
Points: 1145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2012 at 6:13am
I just checked and my pH test is really old, I will take some water to the LFS to get tested, and get a new test kit. I have an overflow and a skimmer (lots of microbubbles) so i assume my gas exchange is sufficient. I do have a glass top on the tank (becuase i kept loosing hawkfish).
I will put some pics on here when i get home from work.
Back to Top
Shayne View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: May 13 2010
Location: SaratogaSprings
Status: Offline
Points: 522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2012 at 10:47am
I'm still a newby but I'm pretty sure that glass top would prevent good gas exchange. (Even with a skimmer and overflow box.) You should replace it with screening material.
 
The glass could also cause temps to climb. What kind of temps do you get in your tank?


Edited by Shayne - May 15 2012 at 10:48am
21G Reefer Nano
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2012 at 11:34am
BINGO, that's it. A reef tank should always be open to the atmosphere.

There are also ways to set up a reef and do aquascaping to make fish happier so they don't jump. Pics will help and we can also tell you about the screening material we use that works awesome.


Edited by Mark Peterson - May 15 2012 at 11:36am
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
1stupidpunk View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: June 10 2011
Location: clearfield
Status: Offline
Points: 1145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2012 at 12:33pm
I had a screen top and fish were still squeezing through. I thought that with the overflow down to the sump (which is open top) thruough the protien skimmer, across the baffles, would be suffiecient oxygen exchange? Am i mistaken?
Back to Top
1stupidpunk View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: June 10 2011
Location: clearfield
Status: Offline
Points: 1145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2012 at 12:47pm
I had just been using plastic egg crate from the hardware store
Back to Top
lskurys View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 01 2011
Location: Roy Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 1129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lskurys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2012 at 12:25pm
I just made so screens for my 75 gallon I got the screen frame from Homedepot and I went with the 1/4" clear netting from BRS.  It looks really good and almost no light lost.  I think the everything cost me like $25.  The even have a nice how to video on http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/ that will show you how to make a screen if you have never done it your self.  So for less than the cost of 1 nice fish you can make sure that you never have one jump out.
220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2012 at 12:34pm
The overflow uncovered is usually not enough. The sump/Refugium is probably behind closed doors, right?
It would be helpful to see a pic(s) of the entire system.
Big smile
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.195 seconds.