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Help Ick that Won't Go Away.

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    Posted: October 16 2012 at 6:44pm
Hey guys seems that I only come on here these days to get some help and this post is no different. Currently my tank looks pretty healthy appart from a blight of ick I've got that my fish can't seem to shake. I've been feeding garlic in their pellets every day for over 2 weeks and it appears to be getting worse. 

Here is the details:
225 gal tank
Salinity: 1.025
Ph: 8.6
Alk: 12 dkh
Ca: 370
Mag: 1050
No3: trace
Phosphate: trace
Fish Population: Powder Blue Tang (haven's seen it today, I feer the worst), blue tang, sailfin tang, kliens butterfly, 2 firefish, 3 clowns, anthia, and I think thats about it.
Coral: Mix of softies, LPS's, and 3 anemones.

Please let me know what you advice and thank you in advance for your help.


Micah


Edited by Sculpin - October 19 2012 at 12:01pm
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What kind of garlic are you using?

I would try raising the temp a few degrees. Stay under 81-82, and lower the salinity slowly to about 1.021. Try this for a few days to a week, then slowly go back to usual.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2012 at 6:58pm
Ich is like fleas - you won't get rid of them unless you kill them all. You can control them, but as soon as you let your guard down, they'll come back. With the particularly sensitive fish you have, you should treat them ALL outside the tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crzyfshguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2012 at 7:12pm
I agree that treating outside the tank works well. Heck a freshwater dip works miracles but the process of catching the fish, treating and returning to the tank is usually more harm then good and very stressful on the fish. Every tank has ich... But healthy fish simply don't get sick with it.

I get a random flare up of ich about twice a year, I raise the temp, and double the garlic intake and it's gone within a few days. I do however keep my Salinity on the low end, and my temp on the high end anyhow. I would have to guess the fish are happier this way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2012 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by Crzyfshguy Crzyfshguy wrote:

Every tank has ich...


No, not every tank has ich. Only those who don't treat for ich have tanks with ich.

Fish do better at lower salinities because they have to work less to maintain osmotic balance. However, corals, some bacteria, and other critters do not tolerate low salinities. If you drop a salinity too low in a reef tank, you risk losing everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ann_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2012 at 8:50pm
ReefdUp has years of experience with dealing with pests and parasites in the aquarium, and has an awesome website with lots of great information. Here is a link to her article on proper treatments of ich.



ReefdUp- I hope you don't mind me posting your own materials here. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2012 at 9:08pm
Aww, thanks Ann! I try to not post my site too often...don't want to look like I'm advertising or just too lazy to actually try to help. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Molli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2012 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Crzyfshguy Crzyfshguy wrote:

Every tank has ich... But healthy fish simply don't get sick with it.


I know I'm a lot newer to this hobby than you are, but I don't think my tank has ich.  I have quarantined everything that has entered my tank and I intend to continue to do so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2012 at 12:52am
set up a large quarantine tank for your fish and move them there for 8 weeks and treat with copper (be sure you maintain healthy levels and check often!), feed garlic (this isn't proven but many say it helps), and make sure they're  low stress and well fed (keep your tank healthy too!). This will help get rid of the ich off your fish and give the main tank a long enough period of time for the free floating parasites and eggs to go through their life cycle. Any less time than 8 weeks will just hinder your efforts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sculpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2012 at 3:04pm
The garlic I'm using is Kent's.
Thank you for the assistance. Removing all the fish out of the tank is pretty much unfeasible. It's a 225 loaded with live rock and coral so catching the fish will be near imposible and add stress to the already stressed out fish. 

Here is my game plan and if you can think of anything I'm missing let me know- 
Step 1: Slowly lower salinity to approx 1.021
Step 2: Slowly Rais Temp to 82
Step 3: Do a Water Change
Step 4: Increase garlic feeding to twice a day
Step 5: Install an Ozone unit (I used to have one back in the day but I've been without one for over a year now).


Micah


Edited by Sculpin - October 18 2012 at 3:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2012 at 3:31pm
Nikki is right; not being able to remove the fish and treat outside the tank is going to make this very tough to get rid of.
 
Honestly... all 3 tangs (at least) are probably going to get sick eventually.
 
I'm not sure Step 3 is going to gain you anything right now.
 
Ozone may help. I'd look into a UV sterilizer as well.
 
 
Good Luck Micah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2012 at 3:33pm
not to sound pessimistic, but that more than likely will not get rid of your ich problem. If you can't remove your fish, then make sure you keep them healthy so they have a high chance of survival.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Molli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2012 at 4:25pm
I think you are going to have to face the music eventually and treat the ich, which means removing the fish or removing everything but the fish. 
 
Lowering your salinity to 1.021 is going to be pretty tough on your corals isn't it? 


Edited by Molli - October 18 2012 at 4:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wickedsnowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2012 at 6:13pm
I have never quarantined a fish in my life. I also have never lost a fish to ick. I personally believe a fish that already has ick shouldn't be removed... you are just going to stress it out more and lose the battle. I agree that setting up a quarantine system and putting all new fish in it is the only way to prevent it 100 percent. However u will also need a seperate quarantine for coral. Even one drop of water from another tank and your back to sqaure one that means no live rock from other people, no macro etc. I don't think the quarantine thing is really feasable for most hobbist. My wife would kill me with the amount of tanks I would need to set up to prevent ick. So for me I will continue to do what I have always done and dip corals for bugs and try to provide my fish with a healthy safe haven to battle paracites. I do also run UV though.. I think garlic works too don't know why and it may be a coincedence but it has cured some tangs for me. So I think your plan sounds good! Best of luck man
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Molli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2012 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by wickedsnowman wickedsnowman wrote:

I have never quarantined a fish in my life. I also have never lost a fish to ick. I personally believe a fish that already has ick shouldn't be removed... you are just going to stress it out more and lose the battle. I agree that setting up a quarantine system and putting all new fish in it is the only way to prevent it 100 percent. However u will also need a seperate quarantine for coral. Even one drop of water from another tank and your back to sqaure one that means no live rock from other people, no macro etc. I don't think the quarantine thing is really feasable for most hobbist. My wife would kill me with the amount of tanks I would need to set up to prevent ick. So for me I will continue to do what I have always done and dip corals for bugs and try to provide my fish with a healthy safe haven to battle paracites. I do also run UV though.. I think garlic works too don't know why and it may be a coincedence but it has cured some tangs for me. So I think your plan sounds good! Best of luck man
 
I'm not in a hurry to fill up my tank, so the way I do it is to purchase some corals and quarantine them.  Once my coral quarantine tank is empty, I'll decide if its time to buy a fish or more corals.  I agree, you can't quarantine them both at the same time without 2 tanks.  Sometimes its really really hard to be patient with my purchases when I see something on the boards I would really like to have.  But I try to think long term and know that whatever I think I want will be for sale sometime in the future when I'm ready for it.  I've read that garlic doesn't do one bit of good, but I know many people seem to think that it does. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crzyfshguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2012 at 11:35pm
I keep my system at 1.021-1.022 salinity all the time, Corals don't have any issues and the fish are much happier at the lower salinity.  I think your game plan is a great start for now, seeing how you cannot remove the fish without causing serious stress from hours of chasing them around.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2012 at 12:22am
JMO...Wink

Don't even touch those fish....let them be, I've been down the "hospital tank" route and lost more fish from stress than anything...if you're going to quarantine, this must be done BEFORE you put fish in the main display, which obviously is too late....

A hospital tank is not effective, if it almost takes the fish's life from the stress of catching it....

I'd do all I could to feed that tank as heavy as possible without significantly reducing the quality of the water.....this can typically be done by small feedings several times a day

The more you are able to keep their bellies full and happy, while maintaining good water chemistry, the greater chance they'll have.  Btw- I've had ich appear on tangs for 3+ weeks and they ended up fine, so don't give up and try to de-stress their environment...hands out of the tank, etc.

+2 to every tank likely has ich...I don't want to get started on this argument though...Smile

btw- try the New Life Spectrum Thera +A formula pellets, is something to that effect, I've had good success with them as they are filled with garlic and my fish go crazy for them...


Edited by bur01014 - October 19 2012 at 12:30am
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[/QUOTE]
I know I'm a lot newer to this hobby than you are, but I don't think my tank has ich.  I have quarantined everything that has entered my tank and I intend to continue to do so.  [/QUOTE]

Please don't take offense, but this is one of the biggest myths out there...quarantine reduces your chances of carrying disease into your tank, but is far from 100%... evidence is non-existent on coral dips and ich, one small droplet of tank water from an LFS on a coral could carry ich into your tank....quarantine is far from a guarantee.

lol, guess I can't quote someone rightEmbarrassed


Edited by bur01014 - October 19 2012 at 1:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wickedsnowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2012 at 1:09am
So this is kind of off topic but it has been bugging me about the ick life cycle. I have had it show up a few times over the years only on tangs might I add. From reading the info that has been posted about the ick life cycle recently it got me thinking. There has been huge gaps of time with no ick visiable on my fish . Like I can see it pop up disappear after a few days and not see it again for like 5 months. How is this possible if it needs the part of the cycle were they are a paracite on the fish in order to survive and the total life span of ick is only 6 to 8 weeks?

Edited by wickedsnowman - October 19 2012 at 1:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Molli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2012 at 7:45am
Originally posted by bur01014 bur01014 wrote:


[

Please don't take offense, but this is one of the biggest myths out there...quarantine reduces your chances of carrying disease into your tank, but is far from 100%... evidence is non-existent on coral dips and ich, one small droplet of tank water from an LFS on a coral could carry ich into your tank....quarantine is far from a guarantee.

lol, guess I can't quote someone rightEmbarrassed
I guess you must not have understood what I do.  I quarantine my corals without any fish in that tank many weeks -- if ich was brought in in the water attached to the coral. the lifecycle for it would have come and gone way before I put my corals in my tank.    I don't tank offense, but I think advice like you have given is off the charts for newbies on here.  They keep hearing from some of you that quarantining is a waste of time.  Its NOT a waste of time.
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