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Sand Bed cleaning

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    Posted: October 30 2012 at 8:22pm
Hey guys and gals,

I have been doing regular tests on our water levels and everything comes out ok except the nitrates, no matter how much of a water change we do they are always off the charts...We stirred up the sand bed tonight and jesus it was nasty. We were wondering if someone had one of those sand bed siphons we could borrow to hopefully get all that nasty crap out of the sand. 

The only other option I can think of is to get rid of all of the sand in there and start over but we would most likely lose all our coral and fish and stuff waiting for it to cycle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larseb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 8:33pm
How much sand do you have?
what maintenance are you currently doing? how often do you change water and how much?
how high are your nitrates?
I am a shallow sand bed person the most sand i have in spots is 3 inches. I try to siphon it every water change and my nitrates stay down. I haven't done dsb or bb so i don't know with those.
If it where my tank would just keep a shallow (0-2 inches) sand bed and siphon it out every water change.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fdc_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 9:01pm
Yes, hence why I asked if anyone has a siphon I could use, mine just sucks all the sand away and into my sink....I know there is a particular type or something that would clean the sand without sucking it all the way down the tube. The Nitrate test has a red color...mine is much much darker than the darkest color on that chart....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larseb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 9:36pm
I just use a normal siphon too and i do usually get sand sucked up to but i have enough that  I don't really care. Maybe you could try siphoning it in to a bucket so you don't get all the sand down your sink.  I tried getting a smaller vacuum thinking it would be to clean the sand without picking a lot of it up but it didn't work. As for the "sand siphon" I haven't ever heard of a special one for that.  Anyways I stand by what i said that I would personally go with a shallow sand bed and for the sucking up of sand i just thought that came with siphoning your sand. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrViper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 9:57pm
Question. When u siphon the sand...don't you also remove copepods or spaghetti Worms etc at the same time or other beneficial things like baby snails etc?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nails12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 10:47pm
I wouldnt siphon the sand if i were you.. My sand is pristine and i never siphon it. You take out most of the good stuff.. and that could actually be adding to your nitrate problem would be my guess.. I would do regular water changes like you are. .. And when your sand bed gets dirty, i would just stir it lightly.. dont make it a sand storm in there.. Also what i found to be very helpful, is a sand sifting star fish...although, depending on your size of tank, i have heard these guys do a good enough job to where they will actually die from starvation. So you might want to look more into it. But i usually keep mine for about 6 months and then sell it and wait a few months then get another.. Just what i have done in the past.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dionysus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 11:13pm
I have a conch and cerith snails they keep my sand clean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sabeypets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 1:44am
When cleaning (or replacing) a dirty sand bed don't clean/replace more than half at the time. That will keep the tank from recycling. When siphoning, reducing the flow will help reduce the amount of sand going down the drain. A dirty sand bed will keep nitrates high, as will a dirty sock or detritus in the bottom of the sump.
Yes, It removes some copepods, spaghetti worms, ect, in a healthy system they will quickly reproduce.
Sand sifting starfish will eat all your micro fauna (good bugs) out of the sand.
     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmac2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 6:16am
I had a diamond goby and until he died my sand bed looked awesome.  I plan on a couple of those guys for my 300 due to the real estate to be covered.  The bonus of them is that they are fun to watch them take a mouthful of sand and spit it out their gills.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 7:06am
I think you would be OK to vaccum the sandbed. But, like Shaun said, don't do the entire tank all at the same time; half the sandbed at every water change.
 
Dave, remind me again - how big is your tank, and how many lbs of live rock do you have?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLindquist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 7:22am
While I have never actually vacuumed my sand, I do turn it over about twice a month using a turkey baster. I also have two fighting conchs that keep the top looking nice and white. However, they both climbed in to a small cave about two weeks ago and I think they are stuck. Unfortunately, I can't get to them either so let's hope for the best.
I too have had sand sifting Diamond Goby's in the past. They did an incredible job keeping things stirred up. I have heard they also decimate the sand bed of live fauna so I decided to try the conchs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fdc_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 7:25am
Originally posted by BobC63 BobC63 wrote:

I think you would be OK to vaccum the sandbed. But, like Shaun said, don't do the entire tank all at the same time; half the sandbed at every water change.
 
Dave, remind me again - how big is your tank, and how many lbs of live rock do you have?
 
 

I have a 55 gallon with a 20 gallon sump, not sure how much live rock we have but its pretty packed. I would estimate over 60 lbs probably. We stirred up the sand a little in one spot and there was this gas cloud coming out of it...pretty gross. Would love to get a goby or anything else that could help clean it up for us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Molli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 7:51am
Once you get your sand bed clean, no matter what method you use, I recommend that you stir up that sand bed very frequently -- at least once a week.  Stirring up a clean sand bed is going to keep it clean and your corals will love it when you stir it up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLindquist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 9:30am
Originally posted by fdc_guy fdc_guy wrote:

Originally posted by BobC63 BobC63 wrote:

I think you would be OK to vaccum the sandbed. But, like Shaun said, don't do the entire tank all at the same time; half the sandbed at every water change.
 
Dave, remind me again - how big is your tank, and how many lbs of live rock do you have?
 
 

I have a 55 gallon with a 20 gallon sump, not sure how much live rock we have but its pretty packed. I would estimate over 60 lbs probably. We stirred up the sand a little in one spot and there was this gas cloud coming out of it...pretty gross. Would love to get a goby or anything else that could help clean it up for us.

Be very careful as you begin to clean your sand bed up. An old bed can be full of toxic gas, which is not necessarily bad until it is disturbed. Start with very small sections of the bed. Spread this out over weeks, if not months. Otherwise, you could nuke your tank.
A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nails12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 10:34am
Maybe i should try the conch.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 10:57am
  Watch out how much you are feeding the tank. If the sandbed is real bad you may be adding too much food to the tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 11:44am
David - I had a pair of conchs that disappeared for a couple weeks...when I found them I also found a whole bunch of egg cases! Hopefully that's what's going on. :)

Every water change I take "cores". I have a siphon that doesn't suck up the sand, so I just...well...take a core from the sandbed and let the siphon pull out the junk from that one core. All the sand falls back down, then I take another "core". This keeps the sandbed clean without stirring it all up. As said before, don't do it all at once - you could unleash a lot more problems than you have now.

I also have a conch, but it only moves about once every month. Must be some good eatin' where it sits. Beyond that, I have the Tonga nassarius snails and ceriths.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fdc_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 12:00pm
OK cool. I have lots of snails and crabs but they don't seem to be doing much. Would love to get some conch and stuff to help out. If I did decide to ditch my nasty sand what would a good way of doing it be? The sand we have now is very coarse and looks gross. We would want a nicer white fine sand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Molli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by fdc_guy fdc_guy wrote:

If I did decide to ditch my nasty sand what would a good way of doing it be? The sand we have now is very coarse and looks gross. We would want a nicer white fine sand.
If it were me, I'd just siphon it out while doing water changes, moving the siphon as slowly as I could over the sand to try to keep from stirring up too much of the yucky stuff into the water, and then change the filter sock after the tank looks clear again because it may become a major nitrate factory.  I'd probably do one area of the tank with each water change until I had a large enough area cleaned out, then I'd probably add some new sand back in that cleaned out area, trying to keep it separated from the dirty sand.  Or you could just get down to bare bottom and slowly add new sand back into the tank, but be careful putting rocks on the bare glass. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote builderofdreams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by ReefdUp ReefdUp wrote:

David - I had a pair of conchs that disappeared for a couple weeks...when I found them I also found a whole bunch of egg cases! Hopefully that's what's going on. :)

Every water change I take "cores". I have a siphon that doesn't suck up the sand, so I just...well...take a core from the sandbed and let the siphon pull out the junk from that one core. All the sand falls back down, then I take another "core". This keeps the sandbed clean without stirring it all up. As said before, don't do it all at once - you could unleash a lot more problems than you have now.

I also have a conch, but it only moves about once every month. Must be some good eatin' where it sits. Beyond that, I have the Tonga nassarius snails and ceriths.
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