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pronunciation help... Chaeto

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Adam Haycock View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 03 2005 at 3:05pm

Im just curious how everyone says some common words in this hobby.

First off is chaetomorpha. I always thought it was key-toe-morf-ah. The "chaet" in many biology terms is keet (like in polychaete), so thats just how i assumed it is said. Another biological term which I know for certain the pronunciation is chaeta. It is pronounced key-tah (similar to cheetah). So am I correct when I say Key-toe. (actually when I say it, it comes out key-doe....hmmmm)

Another word is montipora. Ive always said mon-ti-pore-ah. But ive heard some say mon-tipera.  So what is it? Does the "pora" part have the same sound as it does in Acropora?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coreyk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2005 at 3:27pm

Adam ... I was just thinking about this topic two days ago. Wouldn’t it be cool if there were a online pronunciation dictionary w/ wave files?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2005 at 4:59pm

Chaetomorpha.  I say ky-toe-more-fuh.  I pronounce the "chae" as ky like the word Chaetodontidae, not like Polychaete.
As for Montipora, I say Mon-ti-pore-uh.  But that is because I say it wrong.  I'm pretty sure it should be mon-tip-ura but I have that American slur.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Kripfgans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2005 at 5:55pm
You know..I was thinking the same thing...  everytime I talk to members or LFS I'm thinking to myself is this the right way to pronounce this word or am I making a fool of myself...    most of the time I get lingo correction.   Maybe there wrong to ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2005 at 9:14pm

I recall reading an article by (or an article quoting) JEN Veron about pronouncing acropora and montipora.  He claims the Australians (and he is Australian) pronounce it wrong:  acrop - ora and montip - ora.  The proper pronunciation is acro - pora and monti - pora.  And to me that makes sense.  All these names are usually a combination of two latin or greek words to describe the creature.  Acropora is from Acro meaning "terminal" or "outer most" and pora meaning "pore" or "hole".  This is one of the defining characteristic of acropora (they all have single "pores" at the very tip of the branch).  So the two words are acro and pora.  Throw them together and it's acro-pora.  As for chaetomorpha, I don't know, my latin and/or greek is kinda rusty 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2005 at 12:03am

I pronounce chaetomorpha like Adam.

Also Jon is right on the pronunciation of Acropora and Montipora.  In fact Anthony Calfo mentioned this is his talk last month, and when Julian Sprung was here he talked breifly about it also.

Jake Pehrson

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:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Picklefish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2005 at 4:59pm

Short Version Latin Lesson:

Two vowels are always pronounced separately unless they form a diphthong (where 2 vowels run together).

The Latin diphthongs are:

ae as in pile.

au as in cow

oe as in soil

ei as in reign

ue as in you

ui as in quick

Also...

ch is pronounced as ‘k’, it is an emphasized ‘c’.

Adam has it correct....   ky-toe-more-fuh

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2005 at 5:54pm

Adam has it correct

Well there's something you don't hear every day. 

I actually go buy what my old Latin teachers told me, and I try to ignore would the head aquarium hobbyists tell me.  Maybe I'm wrong for that, but that is what I do.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Haycock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2005 at 6:40pm

I found an online dictionary that has .wav format pronunciation. In the word chaeta, it says the ae is a long e sound (as in bee). And if the word is in its plueral form, chaetae, the second ae also has a 'bee' sound. It says the origin is latin from the greek work khait, meaning long hair.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/c/c0223200.html

Here is another word with the 'ae', polychaete and the pronunciation can be read and heard here...

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/p/p0421500.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Haycock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2005 at 6:47pm

Here is another word with the 'ae'

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/c/c0223300.html

all three words are related so maybe the pronunciation is unique to these three words and wouldn't transfer over to chaeto. But it does say the origin is latin so I would assume latin pronunciation rules would apply.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2005 at 6:55pm
Keep in mind that pronuncation for scientific names is different in many cases then "correct latin".
Jake Pehrson

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:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2005 at 9:45pm

Jake hit the nail on the head.  I tend to pronounce things in "Latin" and my colleagues sometimes make fun of me for not speaking "Science" in the lab. 

Adam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2005 at 10:03pm

Scientists only say it wrong because they are not linguists.  They've been "not linguists" for so long that they think they are saying it right.

Seriously, shouldn't Latin names be pronounced in Latin pronunciation.  I'm no linguist either, but I have wondered how to pronounce many of the scientific names correctly.  If you're now going to tell me that even if I learn to prounce the Latin words I'll still be saying it wrong I'm not even going to try.

I guess I'll have to fall back on Gold Stripped Maroon Clownfish.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2005 at 11:09am
Originally posted by wsinbad1 wsinbad1 wrote:

Seriously, shouldn't Latin names be pronounced in Latin pronunciation. 

In short yes and no.  Although many scientific names are latinized (is that a word?) many have Greek origins and some have English, German, French, etc.  Some are even combinations of different languages.

For example

zooxanthellae

zoo is Greek for "an animal"
xanth is Greek for "yellow"
ellae is a Latin suffix meaning "small"

so how do we pronounce this?  Like it is Greek or Latin.

Jake Pehrson

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Haycock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2005 at 12:50pm

Many words have several correct pronunciations. I just like to use the one that is most widely accepted so I don't sound like an idiot.  For example, how do you say Caribbean? There are two common pronunciations, and both are accepted. I know I use them both. I say it differently when I say, "Pirates of the Caribbean" and "Royal Caribbean".

Jake as far as zooxanthellae, I just avoid saying it and use Symbiodinium microadriaticum instead.

I say it zoh-zan-thell-ee. The 'ae' again making a long e sound as in bee.

That brings up another good word that i hear lots of different pronunciations; zoanthid.

I believe its zoh-an-thid, although I hear many say zoo-an-thid or zoos for short. Should we call them zoas (zohs) for short?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2005 at 1:16pm

I say it differently when I say, "Pirates of the Caribbean" and "Royal Caribbean".

I hate to admit this, but I do the same thing.  Oh it is terrible.

And people calling them zoos frustrates me, because they are zos.  It is Zo anthid, and not zoo anthid.  However none of this is as irritating as the example made by Will. 

That term which need not be mentioned he mentioned..... just to stick it to me

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2005 at 1:43pm

Hey at least I pronounce Zoanthid correctly.  I even have mom saying "Zo's".  Also, I'll have you know I'm constantly correcting people who say Anenome.  That one drives me crazy.

Adam, maybe we could make everyone happy and call them Clownemone Fish.

Jake, I now understand that Scientific names can be made up of words of different origin.  What I don't get is why they can be made up of words of different origin.  It seems very arbitrary to me.  I thought scientists lived by rules.

Another thing I don't get is that if names can truely be arbitrary such as naming something after the person who discoved it or someone the discoverer liked, why is it that I always read about fish, or other things, that they have decided the original name was not correct for.  One day I discover some new deep sea fish and name it Spenceropticus, because I discovered it and it has big eyes.  So then 20 years later a smarter scientist comes along and says "nope you named it wrong.  It is a Hixenburgerbinoculos", because he came from a small town in Bavaria named Hixenburg and he discovered it has telescopic vision.

Ok this is a little outlandish, but they are often changing the names of things and I don't get why.  If my name is Will and tomorrow my mom says I really think you should have been a Jeremy, as far as I'm concerned my name is still Will because that is what I have gone by for 30 years.

Enlighten me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2005 at 2:43pm

Will-
Wish I could help, sorry.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2005 at 2:48pm

Here's a funny story.

Anthony Calfo told us that recently (2000) the common colt coral (Cladiella, or Alcyonium) was renamed to Klyxum sp. by Aldersdale.  Which he named after a student of his, because the name sounded cool.

Jake Pehrson

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:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2005 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by wsinbad1 wsinbad1 wrote:

Jake, I now understand that Scientific names can be made up of words of different origin.  What I don't get is why they can be made up of words of different origin.  It seems very arbitrary to me.  I thought scientists lived by rules.

Here is the "rule".   Scientific names can be anything pretty much (i.e. they don't have to be Latin), but they must conform to Latin grammar.

It is incorrect to call them "Latin names".  They should be called "Scientific Names".

Jake Pehrson

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:)
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