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    Posted: April 27 2005 at 2:00pm
I was wondering if any one in the presidency though about writing a small book about general maintenance IE what to do when this or that happens or how to use pickling lime etc. I would really like to have something i could refer to. Maybe a club fund raising project?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2005 at 3:39pm

We have talked about this in the past.

The problem is coming up with something that everyone agrees on.

There are so many ways to do things that this task is difficult, but not impossible.

 



Edited by Jake Pehrson
Jake Pehrson

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugzme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2005 at 5:53pm
sorry I lost my head!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2005 at 6:50pm

Jeff-
It is a really good suggestion.  In fact we tried making a booklet type thing for pet stores to just hand customers.  Mark has worked on a "dictionary of aquarium terms" type of thing.  So you should know that you have a great idea and we are in favor of it. 

Unfortunately even with only three people working on something we still can't agree on what to say.  In order to get everyone's ideas on the paper we'd end up writing a book.

But we're still listening to ideas on this subject.

Adam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugzme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2005 at 7:05pm
All I was thinking of is things like: if alkalinity is low-use this or this,If Ph is low or high use this, If you want to run kalk use this and mix this way! Just wanted a quick reference guide that we all could use. For example I have never had low Ph so I don't know what to do. It wouldn't have to be that technical! I think people can form their own opinion on how to set up a tank, after that it's the little things that count in a reef.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2005 at 9:33am
Jeff, I like your idea, but who will take the time to write it up?

Rather than coming to agreement, perhaps offering different viewpoints/opinions would be useful?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpiotrowski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:09am

I have been frustrated (before I joined this club) with trying to find out that kind of information.  When it comes to my tanks I am a tinkerer.  I love to try new things and see how it affects the tank.  Books like Sprung seemed a bit too technical for the beginner to learn about this that and the other when it comes to what lighting, filtration and additives.  Other books that I have, seem to be a bit to vaque only explaining that ph should be at such and such, and the temp should be (usually a frigid) 76 (in my opinion).

I have been toying with putting together a book.  I started out thinking it should start (each chapter) a bit light hearted for the beginner and gradually delve deeper into the science/technical aspects of the hobby.  Even with the understanding that even  within a small group of people there are many different ideas and understandings about the hows and whys, it has become amazingly clear that there are many right ways.  My frustrations started with not having a sure fire protocol for starting and maintaining a marine tank.

My idea has changed slightly by adding several tried and true methods.  For example: to raise the ph immediately you can add Kalk (pickling lime); to raise it gradually (over days) you can either leave your sump lights on for a longer period of time (my timer keeps getting stuck on and my ph climbs to 8.4 to 8.5 from 8.2 to 8.3) or raise your carbonate and calcium levels (if low) which (for me ) seem to stabilize around 8.2 to 8.3.

I have delayed my writings to absorb more from this club and posts and once I start up, want to get more technical input from the appropriate people.  Comparing to the other posts I have been a part of we have a unique group of people that makes us well rounded creating an ability to trouble shoot many (if not all) conditions.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to help more with the club and visiting with people for the book but hopefully soon...

I love Jimy Buffet so if it goes that far "Confessions of a Salt Reefer" could be the title.

John

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:36am

I would LOVE this.  I think bugzme is just talking about a simple reference guide.  (Correct me if I'm wrong Bugzme.) Even though there are lots of different  ways to do things, one or two ways would be nice to know. 

For example: 

Best way to lower nitrate: 1) refugium with macroalgae, 2) water change, 3) etc.

Best way to lower phospate: kalkwasser or macroalgae

I wouldn't mind a simple list of IDEAL parameters (not just acceptable parameters).  Something like:

PH: Ideal xxx, with Acceptable parameters of xxx-xxx

Calcium: Ideal xxx ppm, with acceptable parameters of xxx- xxx ppm

Temperature: Ideal xxx, etc, etc.

---------------------------

I've started my own list because it's just easier to look at instead of looking things up in a book.  We all have reference books to go to, but a simple reminder page would be nice for the most common problem.

Maybe it could be written in a word document that could be downloaded and then everyone could modify it to meet their own needs.  It should be written by a beginner because you guys know too much to ever make it simple.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:56am

I think we will take about this more in-depth at our next presidency meeting.

Jake Pehrson

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:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpiotrowski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2005 at 12:19pm

Amie,

Right a quick reference guide would be great.  But what would Jon do if he didn't have to explain what alkalinity, ph and pickling lime were

John

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2005 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by jpiotrowski jpiotrowski wrote:

Right a quick reference guide would be great.  But what would Jon do if he didn't have to explain what alkalinity, ph and pickling lime were

The reference guide will just have to refer to your new book for further details.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugzme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2005 at 4:54pm
You hit it right on the head Amie. thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2005 at 7:47pm
As for the reference guide,IMO it should be written be MARK. He may be cheap, but he's DIY projects work as good as the high prized stuff out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugzme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2005 at 8:48pm
I'd go for Mark and Jon! they both are diy'ers and are both very knowledgeable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joliverson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2005 at 11:26am

Amie - I would use your guide if you have it written.  I think this is a great idea.  i'm still unsure about basics and I spend a ton of time working at it.  The generalities of what you are describing is great.  I would be willing to research threads on here from our experts (Mark, Jon, Jake etc.) and organize some of the posts by content.  I've done technical writing in the past and most of the content can already be found here.  I think some of you guys are getting stuck in wantiing to be right about the details.  Most of you when you answer our questions don't worry about being right you tell us what has worked in your expirience.

For example - The seastar had a great article in the archives about Kalk and how to use it.  That could be modified by some newer expirience and put together in a doc that could be allowed to be printed.

I don't know how many times I've seen people asking about diy skimmers.  There have been multiple posts and content relating to this very question.  It could easily be compilied into a format that makes for a thorough study of the subject.

 

Jody



Edited by joliverson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Star Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2005 at 12:16pm
I agree that this would be a great idea... Maybe instead of having cards printed next time, put a list of ideal parameters for a tank.

Along with that, it would be good to put together 1 web page with a link to it from the home of utahReefs.  inside there, what to do if parameters are too high or too low.  list EVERYTHING that could be done if it's too high or too low.  (if it's like anything else in this world, there is never jsut 1 right answer) ...

Along with that, maybe some suggestions for certain animals.  What to stay away from for the first year, what to feed things, etc.  Everything in one localized place so that it can be referenced to and added to / subtracted from in 1 year.

I don't mind putting somethign like this together if someone will post it to the site for me?  Would have to also post updates... unless you want to just link it to our web page & we can put it there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shane H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2005 at 12:29pm
Hasn't Julian Sprung already done a lot of this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smatney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2005 at 12:41pm
I agree about Julian Sprung.  The Reef Aquarium - Volumes One and Two are informative and easy to read (reading level = grade 10 according to analysis).  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpiotrowski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2005 at 12:42pm

I too was/am frustrated with there not being a 'right' way to do things.  I thought about a book/pamphlet to both keep things straight in my head and maybe help fellow hobbyists.  I have done tons of researching by internet, fish stores and text books and have concluded that even the authorities on the subject, cannot come to an agreement on alot of topics.  Even whether or not to even use a skimmer for example.

The idea to right the 'correct' way to build/run a marine system was based on the texts of J. Sprung, but as I read other authors I took totally different notes, thereby creating my own paradox.  The concept of my idea changed from the right way to do it to if you want to situationally based 'ideas' which would help people in the right direction.  Ex. if you want to just keep nice looking sps use 14K or higher bulbs.  But then you need to know wattage of MH's to use which depends on tank size and distance from the light source to the water surface and corals themselves.

In the last 4-5 years I have gone from a text book junkie (just the facts ma'am) to asking people how/why and what the outcome of their 'right' way.  This doesn't mean that someday there will be one way that significantly stands out but until then....I'm sticking to my own experiences.

Sorry, one more thing about compiling  is where do you start?  I have started several chapters dealing with (lets use kalk as an example).  First you need to start with a very detailed definition on what it is, does and it's affect on both ph and [Ca].  Then you can go into it's uses and how to add it to your system, which would include some sort of flow rate maybe as simple as 'use a drip system'.  Then you could talk about the types of sytems out there that would do this for you and maybe a forshadowing statement about how you would use a controler/measuring mechansim to adjust the flow rate (turn it on/off).  You could then go into DIY kalk reactor which would actually be a fairly large document well anything more than a couple of pages is long to me.

Blah blah blah.

I could go on with this but...

Don't get me wrong.  I think the original idea is great, but it would take alot of time an effort to put together (as I have found out).  Would be large.  And in my opinion there is no 'single' right way.  Things are too situational.  Take Marks tank.  It's beautiful and healthy, but doesn't really have any fancy cadgets and crap like mine does imagine that

My post isn't to discourage this idea as I would try to help with putting it together, it is only my thoughts and some of the issues that have delayed any seriousness on my part.

John

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2005 at 12:52pm

Originally posted by Star Star wrote:

I agree that this would be a great idea... Maybe instead of having cards printed next time, put a list of ideal parameters for a tank.

Along with that, it would be good to put together 1 web page with a link to it from the home of utahReefs.  inside there, what to do if parameters are too high or too low.  list EVERYTHING that could be done if it's too high or too low.  (if it's like anything else in this world, there is never jsut 1 right answer) ...

Along with that, maybe some suggestions for certain animals.  What to stay away from for the first year, what to feed things, etc.  Everything in one localized place so that it can be referenced to and added to / subtracted from in 1 year.

I don't mind putting somethign like this together if someone will post it to the site for me?  Would have to also post updates... unless you want to just link it to our web page & we can put it there?

This seems almost impossible to do.  There are large books that don't cover all that information.

I think we are planning on sticking to a quick reference sheet or pamphlet.

Jake Pehrson

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coralplanet.com

:)
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