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Calling all clam experts!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chuckfu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 8:03pm
When it rains it pours. Sorry.
Try, try, try, then give up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ann_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by chuckfu chuckfu wrote:

When it rains it pours. Sorry.


No kidding...marine velvet now this...my family is almost to the point of taking bets on what will happen next...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 8:26pm
Ann, you have excellent husbandry, and you always do what is best for your critters. These things happen...and you've seen the collection of medications I've amassed trying to fight it all off. As long as you learn something from this ordeal, that's all that matters.

(And btw...you've earned some serious cool points for what you've done to diagnose this clam...lol.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 8:31pm
In looking at the photos...I just noticed I didn't see a fresh white growth band. Is there one? It looks like the most recent one has some algae on it. To me, that suggests a long-term issue (possibly starvation). How big was the clam when you got it...and how big was it when it died?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ann_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 8:57pm
It's hard to see in the photos but there was a new layer of growth. He's grown about 1/2" in ~8 months.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 8:59pm
Ok...well...I'm out of ideas. There are a ton of protozoan/bacterial diseases...that's still my best bet. Sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ann_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 9:00pm
Well thanks for your help anyways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 9:37pm
Aloha,

Every organism is different and what works for one may not work for another. Two things concern me about your setup and feeding in general. I'll throw in my 2 cents here. Smile

Even large clams do better with a regular diet of phytoplankton and Nitrates. If I were wanting to see what effect a change might have, I'd allow a little more nutrients to remain in the water and feed Phyto paste to the entire tank. A lot of important marine organisms both large and teeny weeny, thrive on phytoplankton. Clams are very efficient at eating phyto, so good that within hours they and other teeny weenies have eaten so much of the phyto that the water is clear again. No need for spot feeding in my experience. Smile

I don't keep temps at 78-80 degrees. Everything does better at 75-78, where all the organisms' metabolism is at a more manageable level for the amount of water flow (flow is a a lot better in the wild)so that when the tank gets a little hotter it doesn't suffocate. Suffocate? Yes, because dissolved O2 is significantly reduced for every 1 degree increase in temperature. In my opinion, we are better off keeping our tanks at a base temp of 75.

That's my 2 cents.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 5:43am
Mark,

This clam was alive and healthy just a few days ago (as evidenced by the new growth). If it was starving, it would not have the new growth, and it would instead have a ring of algae along the inside of the shell. Clams are photosynthetic, and she's running high quality lights of the correct spectrum. As she mentioned, she also feeds her nonphotosynthetic corals, and the clam benefits from the stray food. If she had fed more when she first noticed the problem, it probably would've only exacerbated the issue. There have been plenty of studies showing that sudden nutrient increases in captive aquaria cause bacteria populations (both beneficial and detrimental) to explode and cause a variety of issues. Again, there's nothing to indicate it was starving in the first place.

Next, her temperature is not the problem. Clams can survive in that temperature range, and she's had no spikes. It's not where I keep my temperature, but it's not a bad range either. Regardless, that temp range would not have wiped out a healthy clam in just a few days.

And...btw...we all know you went to Hawaii. No need to keep reminding everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ann_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 10:22am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

Aloha,

Every organism is different and what works for one may not work for another. Two things concern me about your setup and feeding in general. I'll throw in my 2 cents here. Smile

Even large clams do better with a regular diet of phytoplankton and Nitrates. If I were wanting to see what effect a change might have, I'd allow a little more nutrients to remain in the water and feed Phyto paste to the entire tank. A lot of important marine organisms both large and teeny weeny, thrive on phytoplankton. Clams are very efficient at eating phyto, so good that within hours they and other teeny weenies have eaten so much of the phyto that the water is clear again. No need for spot feeding in my experience. Smile

I don't keep temps at 78-80 degrees. Everything does better at 75-78, where all the organisms' metabolism is at a more manageable level for the amount of water flow (flow is a a lot better in the wild)so that when the tank gets a little hotter it doesn't suffocate. Suffocate? Yes, because dissolved O2 is significantly reduced for every 1 degree increase in temperature. In my opinion, we are better off keeping our tanks at a base temp of 75.

That's my 2 cents.
Mahalo,
Mark Hug

Mark, as Nikki said, I am running plenty of lighting in a good color spectrum and get great growth and health out of my corals as well as another Tridacnid. If starvation were the issue it would have shown earlier in an algae coating on the sell and by an absence of new growth (thus the algae on the shell). If temperature were the issue the bleaching would have started long ago since the temperature has always been maintained at 78-80F (78 at night, 80 during the day). The clam was perfectly happy and healthy up until about 2 days ago. I'm by no means an expert, but have done my fair share of research on clams and can say this was not a common problem that people encounter. The problem with diagnosing clam deaths is that they often seem to occur quickly and without warning. However when we examine these "mystery deaths" it soon becomes apparent that there were warning signs such as a lack of growth, bleaching, retraction, gaping, etc. However, none of these signs appeared until approximately 36 hours prior to the clam's death, leaving most of the common problems such as starvation, temperature, pests, etc. almost out of the question.

Nikki, I agree it was likely some type of bacterial or protozoan infection. It seems the only likely explanation given the circumstances and symptoms shown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chuckfu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by ReefdUp ReefdUp wrote:

Mark,

This clam was alive and healthy just a few days ago (as evidenced by the new growth). If it was starving, it would not have the new growth, and it would instead have a ring of algae along the inside of the shell. Clams are photosynthetic, and she's running high quality lights of the correct spectrum. As she mentioned, she also feeds her nonphotosynthetic corals, and the clam benefits from the stray food. If she had fed more when she first noticed the problem, it probably would've only exacerbated the issue. There have been plenty of studies showing that sudden nutrient increases in captive aquaria cause bacteria populations (both beneficial and detrimental) to explode and cause a variety of issues. Again, there's nothing to indicate it was starving in the first place.

Next, her temperature is not the problem. Clams can survive in that temperature range, and she's had no spikes. It's not where I keep my temperature, but it's not a bad range either. Regardless, that temp range would not have wiped out a healthy clam in just a few days.

And...btw...we all know you went to Hawaii. No need to keep reminding everyone.




Well said!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote love2skiutah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 8:13am
Originally posted by ReefdUp ReefdUp wrote:

Mark,

This clam was alive and healthy just a few days ago (as evidenced by the new growth). If it was starving, it would not have the new growth, and it would instead have a ring of algae along the inside of the shell. Clams are photosynthetic, and she's running high quality lights of the correct spectrum. As she mentioned, she also feeds her nonphotosynthetic corals, and the clam benefits from the stray food. If she had fed more when she first noticed the problem, it probably would've only exacerbated the issue. There have been plenty of studies showing that sudden nutrient increases in captive aquaria cause bacteria populations (both beneficial and detrimental) to explode and cause a variety of issues. Again, there's nothing to indicate it was starving in the first place.

Next, her temperature is not the problem. Clams can survive in that temperature range, and she's had no spikes. It's not where I keep my temperature, but it's not a bad range either. Regardless, that temp range would not have wiped out a healthy clam in just a few days.

And...btw...we all know you went to Hawaii. No need to keep reminding everyone.


+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 10:29am
-1

Nothing well said about that....the problem was not found and Mark has the freedom to say Aloha all he wants...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ann_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 10:40am
I think Nikki was simply pointing out why the issues Mark mentioned were not very applicable in this situation. No need to feel negatively about her explanation.

Anyways, I think it's time this thread was dropped since it's no longer productive and the cause of the clam's death is not going to be found out at this point. Thanks everyone for your help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 11:36am
Anecdotal I know but I never feed my Maxima clam. I've had it for 4 years now got it when it was 1/2 an inch and now it's 5 inches long. IMO good flow, good light and good water are all you need to keep clams. It appears that infection of some sort is probably the primary cause. Sorry for your loss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 1:01pm
Same as jwoo - don't feed my clams, never have, never will
 
And sorry about your Maxima, Ann - I hate when stuff like that happens.
 
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