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Bryopsis...

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akv123 View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 23 2014 at 2:37am
Little bastards are just starting to show up everywhere. Guess I better nip it in the bud.  
Anyone had success dosing for magnesium to kill it?

I also got these little, kinda cool looking, anemones showing up. They are kind of clear with horizontal bands on the tentacles.  Pretty sure they are not aphasia. I would have thought Majanos but they are clear.... I would actually be ok with them if I knew they wouldn't spread everywhere. 

Nothing that is serious now, but I don't want anything to get outta control. 

I'll post pics later. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 8:44am
I had no luck with just Magnesium but I was able to get rid of it using Tech-m magnesium.

Without a pic of those anemones it's going to be hard to ID and tell you what they are (good or bad). Krazie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 9:58am
Positive its bryopsis not just algae?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeremyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 9:59am
Tech M, Tech M , Tech M!!!! 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:25am
More likely it's hair algae. Hair algae grows as single strands. 
Bryopsis may also be single strands, but is usually a feathery looking strand. In the Reefkeeping Tips thread near the beginning where I speak of Algae, and maybe it's in the list of Tips as well, there is a link to common algae - good and bad. Look there for good pics of Bryopsis and Hair algae.

The answer to almost any algae problem is adding animals that eat it before it gets out of control. My motto for algae control is "Snails, Snails and more Snails." Hermits and algae eating fish are also useful. You are not alone. We have all been where you are. Most new hobbyists, even some not so new, but lucky because they have so far sidestepped an algae problem, are unaware of just how many dozens / hundreds of Snails are needed to control algae. One of my first visits as a novice reef hobbyist to the Pacific Ocean was very revealing. On rocks in the Surf Zone(0-6'), I saw a Snail every 6 inches.

If the hair algae is longer than 1/2" it's a good idea to use Hermits too. That's how I conquered the Green Long-haired Mermaid.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

P.S.
Kent Tech-M is the only Mg product that has an effect on Bryopsis; and
Those anemones you described are Aiptasia, just a different color variation. Peppermint Shrimp are awesome, but PS will avoid large ones because of the tentacles. Use Kalkwasser paste or white vinegar to first disable the large Aiptasia so the PS can eat them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akv123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2014 at 3:11am
Here are the pics I promised.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akv123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2014 at 3:17am
The rock those nems are on is awesome. Red and orange sponge, some weird brown slime stuff that is smooth but has tiny clear tunicate like tubes, and things that look like clam shells that have breathing holes too. There is actually one of those clam shell things in the second photo, you can see the hole thing? Ill put some pics of it up. 

Its has a bunch of hitchhikers on it but it has to stay. Also, these thin, little tiny long tentacle polyps? or maybe more aptasia? they only comes out at night? I dunno what it is either.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2014 at 7:58am
Good pics. Thanks for that.
I would not jump too quickly to assume there are pests. That algae is looking longer and less feathery than typical Bryopsis. It may be a problem or it may be one of 1000's of wonderful algae varieties that come to us on LR. I would wait and see what it turns out to be. It can always be eaten later.

This LR was wild collected and uncured, right? That would explain all the critters and algae. In my way of looking at things, I don't call them hitchhikers, because this was their home to begin with. Smile

Yes that certainly looks like a sort of Aiptasia, but it may not turn out to be a problem. I've had Aiptasia that lived solo for a long time. It has to do with the environment they are in. We know that some anemones seem to split in stressful conditions or shortly after restoration of good conditions, but there are also anemones that split regularly in good conditions. Aiptasia seem to thrive and reproduce in conditions that would be considered less than ideal.

Some animals are definitely nocturnal. To avoid predation many organisms stay small during the day. In time they may learn that they can open up all day long because now they are in a Refugium of sorts.

Those Clams are common on LR taken from the ocean. They rarely move, so we have to be careful when aquascaping to give them access to water rather than pressed up against the next rock or buried in the sand.

I do see algae, possibly a mix of Cyanobacteria and Diatoms growing over things, even covering the suspected Bryopsis. To me, that indicates the need for more Snails. It could also mean that feeding should be reduced and/or that the tank needs more time to mature and develop a fuller biofiltration before adding anything more. 

Overall, I'd say your tank is coming along nicely. May we see a pic of the full tank?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akv123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2014 at 2:30am
Nice Pic?!?!? How bout Pics!!!

Here's a ton....




















Some of the pics are older. The bubbles are from braking in the protein skimmer, and the sump has changed a bit. I took out that plastic box thing that had the mangroves in it and moved stuff around. 
 


Edited by akv123 - September 28 2014 at 2:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2014 at 9:32am
Nice beginning to a beautiful tank.
I'd get 1 or 2 peppermint shrimp for the Aiptasia and try a Pacific Turbo Snail on that algae.
New tanks go through good and bad changes.
Can't say for sure because of the angle of the camera, but I see limited space on the sand under the rocks. Two or three small reef heads on the sand might look better than one. Just my opinion.

Aloha  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2014 at 7:20am
Bringing this discussion back here where it started, here is your recent post in the b/s/t section:
Originally posted by akv123 akv123 wrote:

Hey mark! Im in the middle of the tech M thing. Im just not sure its working... I have 3-4 astrea snails. 2 red leg, and 1 white leg hermits. About 6 nassa snails. 2 normal and 4 tiny tiny ones. And i just saw one of those no shell snails yesterday.

The key here is to know the Mg level. As I recall it has to be over 1800 ppm and maybe closer to 2100 ppm to kill Bryopsis. Here is a good link: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/322331-kent-tech-m-bryopsis-treatment/
Remember how we were wondering previously if that algae truly was Bryopsis? If the test shows there definitely is 2100 ppm Mg in the water then the algae is not Bryopsis. 

Sorry, but here is something else I have concerns about. There are only 4 algae eating Snails and 3 Hermits in this 17(?) gal tank. Shocked I'm sorry, but I would not be surprised to find that the tank is already being overgrown with algae or teetering on the edge a bad algae bloom. I've seen it hundreds of times. To avoid that, add more Snails ASAP. The general rule of thumb is one Snail/gal and one hermit for every 3-4 snails. In a situation where the algae has become long, more Hermits are needed to snip off the long strands(because Snails won't eat long strands), with a floss bag or HOB mechanical filter to remove floating strands from the water.

Later, when the algae has been consumed, most Hermits and a few Snails should be removed to prevent hungry Hermits and starving Snails. Trade them to someone that needs them.

Aloha  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - October 08 2014 at 7:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2014 at 7:34am
It's just me, but I would not add a very carnivorous fish (Red Possum Wrasse) until I had this algae issue controlled. Wrasse are counterproductive to algae control, as you can read in the article "Herbivores versus Carnivores" here: http://www.utahreefs.com/SeaStar/SeaStarJunePrint.pdf

Aloha  Hug

P.S.
Though it is called a "Pygmy" Wrasse, it has a mouth that can open large enough to eat a small Peppermint Shrimp. Yes, the shrimp will stick partway out of the mouth while it is being digested. Cry


Edited by Mark Peterson - October 08 2014 at 7:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crazy Tarzan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2014 at 7:53am
The Kent Tech-M mag is what is used to kill off bryopsis most the time.  Needs to have mg at about 1500 min, and can be pushed farther up if needed to effect the die off.  However, people have mentioned that anything over 1600 can start to kill off some of the invertebrates.

I have all kinds of funky stuff in my tank, including several types of algae you do not see normally.  I also have some pest algae.  I prefer to let most algae grow--some of it is cooler than all get out.  This was from 'uncured' live rock as well.

I have one anemone that looks like a giant apatasia--except it's almost clear and has candy cane 'stripes' running up and down the tentacles.  it's currently got tentacles 3-4" long, but since it hasn't spread, and isn't currently bothering any other corals I've left it.

I'm with Mark--more snails.  Let the algae grow.  Well some of it.  Mark has some cool algae too.
Was that in there yesterday? Casper--WY windier than ?

Down to a 20, soon to double or nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akv123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2014 at 8:01am
Ok. I have 3-4 astrea snails and a few nassa snails. Plus 4 hermits. So it sounds like a bunch mire snails and a few hermits. Probably a couple turbos among the needed snails i guess?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crazy Tarzan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2014 at 8:14am
Turbos can be a generic term.  Astrea can be called turbo, then there are Mexican Turbos (these get big, and can bulldoze stuff in your tank).  If you search around different online vendors you can get an idea of the snails available--best to find some you think would be useful and ask for opinions here.  Many can be found in LFS, some only from specific sites. 

And the 'shell-less' ones are stomatella, awesome little snails but I've found shrimp think they are a delicacy if the shrimp is hungry.  They do have a small abalone shaped shell just have to look for the part that doesn't move with like the rest of them.  They will spawn in your tank too!  Always cool to see them all decide to spawn at once.

Trochus, cerith, nerite, nassarius, conchs, cone snails, there are many kinds and each has a different benefit (or negative--I had a snail given to me that ate limpets, it decided my astrea were fair game since I don't have any limpets, its no longer in my tank).
Was that in there yesterday? Casper--WY windier than ?

Down to a 20, soon to double or nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2014 at 8:20am
Trying not to miss the main point here, what is the current Mg level?

You can always set up a bucket of salt water with 2100 ppm Mg and place the problem algae on it's LR(with snails removed of course) into the bucket for a day or two.

To answer your question: Yes and yes and yes, but try just one Pacific Turbo to see if it will eat the supposed bryopsis.

FYI, Nassarius Snails are not herbivores so they won't help at all with algae control but they are useful as sand stirrers and detritus eaters.

Aloha  Hug
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