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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2015 at 7:11pm
Yea the alive ones should be extended a lot more but may just be settling in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 4:17am
From the movie Star Trek - The Voyage Home

Spock: To hunt a species to extinction is not logical.
Dr. Gillian Taylor: Whoever said the human race was logical?

Dr. Gillian Taylor: I don't know about you, but my compassion for someone is not limited to my estimate of their intelligence.

Excerpt from the Wasatch Marine Aquarium Society Mission Statement
 The Wasatch Marine Aquarium Society (WMAS) is a non-profit organization dedicated to the support of the hobby of marine aquarium keeping. We believe in conservation of coral reefs by promoting captive breeding and propagation of marine creatures and developing natural marine environments for our specimens. We promote responsibility and education of marine hobbyists.


Do we pause to consider that Coral are living animals just like fish, and humans? I believe that all life on a reef [aquarium] is precious, even the algae, bacteria and bugs living in and on Rock and Substrate. I don't know about you, but I believe all life deserves our respect and our care. We are the stewards of our aquariums and in a larger sense we have stewardship of our planet.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 8:01am
Originally posted by Bryce Bryce wrote:

Yea the alive ones should be extended a lot more but may just be settling in.

Oh I see. I looked up images online and I do see how mine have poor extension. Thanks for seeing that. You see a lot in my crappy pictures. Thanks!

Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

From the movie Star Trek - The Voyage Home

Spock: To hunt a species to extinction is not logical.
Dr. Gillian Taylor: Whoever said the human race was logical?

Dr. Gillian Taylor: I don't know about you, but my compassion for someone is not limited to my estimate of their intelligence.

Excerpt from the Wasatch Marine Aquarium Society Mission Statement
 The Wasatch Marine Aquarium Society (WMAS) is a non-profit organization dedicated to the support of the hobby of marine aquarium keeping. We believe in conservation of coral reefs by promoting captive breeding and propagation of marine creatures and developing natural marine environments for our specimens. We promote responsibility and education of marine hobbyists.


Do we pause to consider that Coral are living animals just like fish, and humans? I believe that all life on a reef [aquarium] is precious, even the algae, bacteria and bugs living in and on Rock and Substrate. I don't know about you, but I believe all life deserves our respect and our care. We are the stewards of our aquariums and in a larger sense we have stewardship of our planet.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

Mark

I should not be as vague in my statements knowing that you will likely read it. I did not mean for my response to be so black and white. I simply care, a lot, a lot less, if a coral dies versus a fish. This does not mean that I do not value its life, but I value it extremely low on the totem pole of living things.

I care about all living things and am doing my best to ensure everything is comfortable in my tank, etc. However, if you or I really cared as much as we say, it would likely not be a good idea to even attempt to be an aquarium owner. We both know that at some point something will go wrong and we will kill something. For instance, you are growing the algae you love to feed it/kill it, by giving it to your fish.

Its hard to draw a line about how much respect you are really giving the algae. I am certainly not saying you shouldn't do that, but your statement seems contradictory to me.

That said, thanks for your input and for reading my .02 cents. 

Marcos


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete Moss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 10:19am
If the tentacles are out on the candy cane coral, I'd recommend feeding it manually with tongs and small pieces of shrimp. Poor lil' guy is hungry.

The dead parts of the hammer coral can be cut off if you find them unsightly :)



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 10:50am
Originally posted by Pete Moss Pete Moss wrote:

If the tentacles are out on the candy cane coral, I'd recommend feeding it manually with tongs and small pieces of shrimp. Poor lil' guy is hungry.

The dead parts of the hammer coral can be cut off if you find them unsightly :)




Hi Pete,

Thanks for the info. I do feed it hard food, like mysis shrimp and other stuff, once a day (but just one little piece). I feed it Reef Energy once a day too (prior to giving it the hard food), which is just a liquid that gets the tentacles all excited, and I feed Reef Roids once every four days (I don't give them hard food that day). Is that not enough food?

Thanks Pete!

Marcos

PS. Thanks for the comment on the hammer! Its so ugly and was afraid to chop that piece off. But its clearly dead so I will.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 10:51am
I agree. It certainly can be a conundrum. After pondering it quite a lot (I eat a plant based diet), I have come to the realization that the purpose for many living things is to be eaten and provide nourishment for other living things. As far as a "totem pole", it is common to consider algae/plants as the basis of life. One might say that without plants, animals would cease to exist. Yet in fact, without animals, plants might also cease to exist. With this in mind, maybe it would be worthwhile to say that all living things have equal value. The circle of life as it were. Anyway, that's my opinion and 2 cents.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proskier101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 11:00am
pretty sure that thing you didnt know or forgot the name of is a flower pot coral.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

I agree. It certainly can be a conundrum. After pondering it quite a lot (I eat a plant based diet), I have come to the realization that the purpose for many living things is to be eaten and provide nourishment for other living things. As far as a "totem pole", it is common to consider algae/plants as the basis of life. One might say that without plants, animals would cease to exist. Yet in fact, without animals, plants might also cease to exist. With this in mind, maybe it would be worthwhile to say that all living things have equal value. The circle of life as it were. Anyway, that's my opinion and 2 cents.

Aloha  Hug

Touche. I cannot argue that as that is perfectly valid. 

Marcos

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 11:09am
Originally posted by proskier101 proskier101 wrote:

pretty sure that thing you didnt know or forgot the name of is a flower pot coral.

Thanks! I Google'd it and it looks like what I have.

Thanks!

Marcos

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete Moss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 11:16am
Originally posted by Marcoss Marcoss wrote:

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the info. I do feed it hard food, like mysis shrimp and other stuff, once a day (but just one little piece). I feed it Reef Energy once a day too (prior to giving it the hard food), which is just a liquid that gets the tentacles all excited, and I feed Reef Roids once every four days (I don't give them hard food that day). Is that not enough food?

Thanks Pete!

Marcos

PS. Thanks for the comment on the hammer! Its so ugly and was afraid to chop that piece off. But its clearly dead so I will.



That is plenty of food yes, just wasn't sure if you were currently feeding it. It does look a little sad. Something must be off in parameters or lighting.

And yes, dead skeleton on the hammer coral can be removed, just be careful not to harm the healthy tissue :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2015 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by Pete Moss Pete Moss wrote:

Originally posted by Marcoss Marcoss wrote:

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the info. I do feed it hard food, like mysis shrimp and other stuff, once a day (but just one little piece). I feed it Reef Energy once a day too (prior to giving it the hard food), which is just a liquid that gets the tentacles all excited, and I feed Reef Roids once every four days (I don't give them hard food that day). Is that not enough food?

Thanks Pete!

Marcos

PS. Thanks for the comment on the hammer! Its so ugly and was afraid to chop that piece off. But its clearly dead so I will.



That is plenty of food yes, just wasn't sure if you were currently feeding it. It does look a little sad. Something must be off in parameters or lighting.

And yes, dead skeleton on the hammer coral can be removed, just be careful not to harm the healthy tissue :)

I added a second Kessil today and it makes a massive difference. I had no idea half of the tank was dark. Woops. Ha. I am hoping this helps. I moved it toward one of the highest part.

Deal on removing the dead skeleton and leaving the healthy tissue alone

Marcos

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 12:48pm
... a month and a half in and I have my first fatalities. It was much more difficult than I thought it would be. My wife and I were sad when they died, not like a pet dog/cat sad, but still sad.

I bought a fish last Saturday that seemed healthy and fine, but I suspect he spread Ich around in my tank like Ebola. The day before last, Mona, our kole tang just died. She was fine in the morning, no visible signs of anything and eating healthy, but I came home to find her between two rocks. At first I thought she had somehow gotten stuck or smashed, but I was able to easily pull her our with tongs, so I knew she was not smashed. I thought it was a fluke so I visually inspected everything else in my tank, my five other fish, and all seemed well. They were all eating, being just as active, and everything was great.

So, I wake up the next morning and One Dot, one of our clown fish is dead. At this point I know something is horribly wrong and that Mona was not smashed. I immediately ran to Petsmart and put together a very comfortable, yet tiny, 6 gallon quarantine tank and wrangled Lip, the remaining clown, and placed him in the tank. I dosed as much as I could of the Ich medicine and he seemed fine. I woke up early in the morning to find Lip dead. The tank had a slowly raise temp of 79/80 and there was great movement/oxygen exchange. 

So, I have three fish left in my tank and I realize I need to get them out and treat. I have read that the tank can be clean again after about 3-4 weeks, but that is assuming I can get the fish out and treated. The problem is I have two pajama cardinals and a spotted dragonet that I cannot get out for the life of me. They keep hiding in rock work even when I move it out of the way. I am afraid to move too much and disturb the sand bed to only cause more issues. 

So, for now, I am really hoping the pajamas and the dragonet, even though I hate him because I am blaming him for deaths (even though its impossible to know if it was him), survive. I will set up a trap and see if I can get them out.

So far I have not found any Ich meds that I can put in the tank that won't claim to cause bigger issues. 

Besides the Ich being a real pain in the ass, everything else is great. I have read that Ich cannot host coral or cause any other issues, besides the obvious killing of fish, so I am thinking that the tank looking great is not the calm before the storm.

Takeaways:
Vet fish out to make sure they are doing well at store. ReefOn model of days in store/versus out of ocean.
Quarantine in-house.
Only buy fish from copper treated tanks, to further reduce Ich liability.

I realize Ich has a myriad of triggers but I have not really changed anything in the tank and the parameters  have been steady. The only new addition is the dragonet.

Marcos



Edited by Marcoss - March 05 2015 at 1:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 12:59pm
I would post the above in the emergency area. I think you will get more action. Sorry for your lose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 1:08pm
Thanks Glenn. I am pretty confident it was Ich versus Velvet or anything else. Lip had many white spots last night and he was kind of shedding them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 1:29pm
You blame the dragonet for ich? From what I know they are very ich resistant due to their slime. Some blame, some may argue all, should be based on the choice not to quarantine. Sorry for your loses, I did the same thing, 3 times, after that all new fish got a 6 week quarantine with copper and prazipro for some of that period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 1:33pm
Thanks for your message. I blame him only because he is new. I don't truly blame him though since its impossible to know what gave it to them. For all I know my dogs may have been jumping in front of the tank and intimated/scared the fish into Ich. 

I hope the dragonet has a higher chance of survival if they are more resistant. I'd hate to see him die too. 

Yeah, from now on, everything is quarantined. I knew about copper but will research PraziPro. Thanks for the info!

Marcos

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 1:53pm

Originally posted by Bryce Bryce wrote:

You blame the dragonet for ich? From what I know they are very ich resistant due to their slime. Some blame, some may argue all, should be based on the choice not to quarantine. Sorry for your loses, I did the same thing, 3 times, after that all new fish got a 6 week quarantine with copper and prazipro for some of that period.


I would like to see this topic covered in a meeting in the near future (by ReefdUp). I had every intention of doing QT for all livestock. Bought the tanks and set them up, but could only kill fish in them. So I stopped and have been careful about the fish I put in the tanks, but know it is just a matter of time before I introduce something into the DT.

Glenn

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 1:56pm
Brilliant idea Glenn. I wondered if maybe he died in the QT as well, not Ich related. I know the basics of it but since it was not a full time QT I was not sure how much cycled water to add versus how much new. I did half and half since I did not want to bring dirty/Ich water into the tank I am trying to treat it for. I'd like to know thoughts on the water to have, etc. What I am thinking of doing is keep a small rock and small cup of sand in my sump to drag over to the QT when I set it up. This way it has some items from the main display. And I will just let the QT run for a few weeks empty/without meds if I bring the small rock/sand back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 3:02pm
ReefdUp's extensive QT procedure is outlined in a Reefkeeping Tip. It was a very good discussion of this very thing by several hobbyists. Click on the link below in my sig line. Smile

Also see the link in that same area about an effective treatment for fish without having to QT.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2015 at 3:30pm
Yes I even contacted her and used her method. I think her method is a good one but I can not do it successfully. Sometime us new folks need our hands held. 
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