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someone in sandy?

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    Posted: June 06 2015 at 7:58am
is there someone in sandy that couldn help me test my water?

something is up with my 40g 

the sps are bleaching a little at the base.  :( its not looking happy



my results show:
Po4 0.0
Kh- 7.5-8
salinity 1.022
Nitrates  roughly 0.25



Edited by proskier101 - June 06 2015 at 7:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2015 at 8:12am
Your salinity needs to come up to 1.025-1.027 for SPS. Your alk could also stand to be higher. What's your calcium and magnesium?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proskier101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2015 at 8:42am
Ca is 440

Mg-  not sure.  I can have that tested tonight. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2015 at 11:31am
Could be low Alk (below 8 dKH, especially prolonged low Alk, the stony coral in my coral farm suffer)
Could be toxins
Could be heat, temp rise or constant above 81
Could be lighting change
Could be low Mg
Could be low flow

We need more info to narrow it down. In an emergency of this nature and where test kits are not handy, a ~25% water change is the thing I would do. 

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proskier101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2015 at 7:07am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

Could be low Alk (below 8 dKH, especially prolonged low Alk, the stony coral in my coral farm suffer) could be.  mine hovers around 8.
Could be toxins  I dont know how.  nothing has changed in the tank.  
Could be heat, temp rise or constant above 81 temp rose to 78 with warmer weather
Could be lighting change no change
Could be low Mg will test today.
Could be low flow hasnt changed and they were doing great last week!

We need more info to narrow it down. In an emergency of this nature and where test kits are not handy, a ~25% water change is the thing I would do. 

did that. we will see



Aloha,
Mark  Hug

my dam dinos have flared up again. OuchCry

somehow I think they are related. Im about to just drop coin on an ro unit.

I also swapped out for new alumina.  Since phosphates have been low.  Im wondering if white city water has high silicates.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2015 at 7:37am
Many kinds of Toxins are produced by all living organisms, including coral. In our little boxes of water, the concentration of those toxins builds up higher and higher, swirling around and around in the tank until they reach levels of toxicity that stop coral from growing or even cause death. That's why most of us run AC (Activated Carbon) changed every 2-4 weeks (Adam Blundell doesn't use AC. Instead, he performs regular +50% water changes).

If PO4(Phosphate) is too low the coral's symbiotic zooxanthellae algae can stress and die, causing coral polyp death. Running AA (Activated Alumina) continuously can deplete the PO4 below the range it needs to be to feed zooxanthellae algae. PO4 is actually an algae nutrient, just like Nitrate.

All city water has silicates. AA adsorbs silicates too.

City water often contains other impurities that cause issues for coral. Though some hobbyists might use it successfully, their particular city water may not have bad impurities. I recommend RO purified water. At the same time, the extra cost of adding DI to the RO system is, in my opinion and experience, unnecessary.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - June 07 2015 at 7:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proskier101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2015 at 7:55am
I had a dying coral in the tank that I yanked out. the flesh was peeling from the skeleton.
It was a Neon Hydnopora. 
 
I wonder if it was releasing toxins.   Tank is still doing poor. 
 
Completed another 25% water change and added carbon.  also set the skimmer to run wet.


Edited by proskier101 - June 10 2015 at 8:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proskier101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2015 at 8:04am
What was the stuff I can buy at a grocery store to raise alk?
 
Baking soda?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2015 at 10:27am
Originally posted by proskier101 proskier101 wrote:


What was the stuff I can buy at a grocery store to raise alk?
 
Baking soda?


Yes you can add Baking Soda.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2015 at 3:35pm
Adding baking soda will lower your PH. You need to bake it in the oven 1st. Just google it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2015 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by Bryce Bryce wrote:

Adding baking soda will lower your PH. You need to bake it in the oven 1st. Just google it.


I add it all the time, and have a controller with a pH meter and it has never lowered my pH. The technical name for baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, and it has a pH of 9.

Read more : http://www.ehow.com/facts_5266423_ph-level-baking-soda.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2015 at 4:31pm
Yea, guess I should have said bake it and it has the positive effect of boosting your PH up (if you need that). My statement is scientifically accurate but yes, the effects of lowered ph are negligible/ short lived. I struggle with low PH and most people I know do as well but perhaps his PH is fine. So depending on your PH you may or may not want to bake it 1st. Your article is not talking about PH in saltwater. Randy Holes Farley had tons of articles on this.

Edited by Bryce - June 10 2015 at 4:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proskier101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2015 at 4:53pm
So baking soda for sure. I couldnt remember if it was baking powder or soda.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2015 at 11:34am
Originally posted by Bryce Bryce wrote:

Yea, guess I should have said bake it and it has the positive effect of boosting your PH up (if you need that). My statement is scientifically accurate but yes, the effects of lowered ph are negligible/ short lived. I struggle with low PH and most people I know do as well but perhaps his PH is fine. So depending on your PH you may or may not want to bake it 1st. Your article is not talking about PH in saltwater. Randy Holes Farley had tons of articles on this.


I would like to read the articles. Do you have any for reference that I can read? I have a hard time believing that a pH buffer such as Baking Soda would lower pH. With the pH of 9 it would have little effect on the aquarium but would in fact raise it or help the pH from dropping as it is absorbing the Hydrogen(acid) in the water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2015 at 1:40pm
I have no idea if you are joking or are being serious? But if you are not joking here you go:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/
" For example, combining a baking soda solution at pH 8.3 with artificial seawater at pH 8.2 can result in a pH that is actually below pH 8.2 (in this case, the pH drops because the bicarbonate in baking soda is a stronger acid in seawater than it is in freshwater). " Randy has many articles that state this.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/6/chemistry
"Another good option to lower chronically high pH is to switch to an alkalinity supplement that has less of a pH raising effect. Limewater is the worst of the lot, followed by sodium carbonate (washing soda). Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) will actually have a very slight pH lowering effect on it's own, and will make a big pH effect relative to adding limewater or washing soda. "

http://www.reef2reef.com/blog/baking-soda-the-reef-aquarium/
"Using uncooked baking soda may lead to a drop in pH for a period of time upon dosing."

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/#7
"I showed experimentally in a previous article that adding enough baking soda to lower pH in artificial seawater by 0.04 pH units raised alkalinity by 0.5 meq/L (1.4 dKH)."

"This article actually details two primary recipes. One uses raw baking soda, and the other uses baking soda that aquarists bake before use. The baking drives some of the carbon dioxide out of the baking soda, and raises its pH as well as its alkalinity.

Recipe #1 (Baked) is for use in reef aquaria whose pH is normal to low. In practice, more reef aquarists end up choosing this recipe than Recipe #2. It will tend to raise pH due to its alkalinity part's elevated pH, as do most of the commercial two-part additives. The increase in pH depends on the aquarium's alkalinity and, of course, on how much is added. Adding on the order of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity increases the pH by about 0.3 pH units immediately upon its addition (and even higher, locally, before it has a chance to mix throughout the aquarium).

If you are using limewater (kalkwasser) and the aquarium is at pH 8.4 or above, this recipe is not the best choice. Otherwise, it is likely to be a good option. It is twice as concentrated as Recipe #2, because the baking process makes the baking soda more soluble.

Recipe #2 (non baked) is for use in reef aquaria whose pH is on the high side (above 8.3 or so). It will have a very small pH lowering effect when initially added. The pH drop achieved will depend on the aquarium's alkalinity and, of course, on how much is added. Adding on the order of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity drops the pH by about 0.04 pH units immediately upon its addition."                   



BRS: "Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate) is used alone or in combination with BRS Bulk Sodium Bicarbonate to maintain proper alkalinity and raise the pH of your tank. " http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-bulk-soda-ash-sodium-carbonate-aquarium-supplement.html#tab-full-details

I don't have a lab to prove any of this, it just seems like more common knowledge that baking the baking soda helps raise the PH and not can MINIMALLY affect it down TEMPORARILY. 

I didnt mean to start some online battle here, just tying to help a fellow reefer out, in Utah a common problem I see on the forum is low PH. 

Just to give you some background on Randy:
Experienced leader of drug discovery and development. Expertise in therapeutic polymers, biomaterials, and drug delivery. Background includes a PhD in Chemistry, successful startup company experience and big biotechnology firms. Co-inventor of 3 approved pharmaceuticals, 72 US patents, and 32 journal publications.

* Drug Discovery Leadership: Leadership of multifunctional teams of different sizes to bring pharmaceuticals from early discovery to clinical trials. Extensive knowledge of market assessment, target validation, test method development (in vitro and in vivo), candidate evaluation, and development of drug product profiles. Development of budgets and timelines.

* Therapeutic Polymers and Biomaterials: Extensive experience in the design, synthesis, characterization, formulation, and evaluation of polymers as pharmaceuticals and devices. Co-inventor of eight pharmaceutical polymers to reach clinical trials, three of which are marketed worldwide. The sevelamer drugs reached blockbuster status in 2013, with sales exceeding $1 billion annually.

* Start Up Company Experience: Second employee of GelTex, Co-founder and CTO of PixarBio. Making do with available resources; do or die pressure and focus. Development of the science team as well as the technology.

* Functional Area Head (Chemical Research): Led and mentored research chemists in the design and synthesis of small molecule and polymer therapeutics.

* Government Filings: Regulatory filings (CMC sections for filings; white papers informing regulators; presentation to FDA), intellectual property filings.



Edited by Bryce - June 11 2015 at 2:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2015 at 4:04pm
To the OP -
 
 
1) Go to Walmart and get Arm & Hammer Washing Soda
 
It is in the Laundy aisle
 
It is pure Sodium Carbonate (aka "baked" baking soda)
 
a 5 lb box is around $3.50
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
2) While in Walmart, pick up some Arm & Hammer Baking Soda
 
It is in the Baking / Spices aisle
 
It is pure Sodium Bicarbonate
 
A large box costs around the same as the other stuff.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
A proper 'ratio' is 1 part Carbonate to 2 parts Bicarbonate. Mix with water before dosing
 
 
They are perfectly safe - I use them all the time.
 
 
 
 


Edited by BobC63 - June 11 2015 at 4:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2015 at 4:08pm
P.S. -
 
 
In your case, with only 40g of water...
 
Try 1/4 tsp Washing Soda, 1/2 tsp baking soda, mix thoroughly into 16 oz of fresh (RO if you have it) water
 
Pour it into the sump so it disperses before it hits your coral
 
Wait 1 hr, check your alk
 
Do not raise your alk more than 1/2 dKH per 24 hrs
 
I would shoot for an alk reading of about 9 dKH myself
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