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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2015 at 4:26am
It's interesting that a person with such inexperience with bulkheads and drilled tanks would at one point admit that they are inexperienced and yet then be so adamant that the problem was not theirs but instead caused by the manufacturer. 

Everyone looking at this thread should be aware that when a bulkhead is overly tightened, two separate problems can occur:
- the seal becomes compressed so that it loses it's intended rubbery properties, which when tightened properly, allow the bulkhead to move slightly while retaining the watertight seal. When that flexibility is diminished by overtightening, any sideways pressure on the bulkhead, even the sideways pressure of the wrench on the nut and especially a minuscule movement of rigid PVC pipe solidly glued in to the bulkhead, acts like a lever exerting pressure sufficient to compromise the glass. A crack may not be visible immediately, but the glass has already been compromised leading to future failure. It's wise to remember, glass is a viscous liquid that gives way (separates) under pressure.

- Secondly, these black plastic bulkheads we use are very soft plastic. They are not PVC plastic, but a version of Vinyl (like Vinyl tubing). When over tightened, they split, crack. bend, slip and fail. They are actually a good match for the viscous liquid (glass) they are used on. 

Lastly, and equally important, a properly tightened bulkhead and extended piping must be handled with "kid gloves" or either it or the glass will surely fail, sooner or later.   Sorry. Unhappy

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - August 13 2015 at 4:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2015 at 9:12am
Wow Mark, Way to show some compassion. Apparently you have forgotten that new tanks don't come with information on how to install bulkheads or how tight to make them. I'm sure in all your years of reefing it's come second nature to you after making mistakes to figure it out. Apparently the same is not allowed of other reefers?

We aren't saying that this is a "manufacturing" problem. It is however a "manufacturer" problem in that they failed to properly instruct how to install an item, that they supply with the tank, to prevent damage to their product. Even you should be able to see the error in this. If there is a proper and an improper way to install something on your product and you don't inform the buyer of this information you better bet that the issue is yours when they do it wrong.

Your statement above also assumes that the molding of the bulkhead is perfectly smooth with no seam ridges from the injection mold. I have had many that had excess plastic along those seams and if you don't trim it off it can create a point of higher pressure under the bulkhead. As you mention that "glass is a viscous liquid the gives way under pressure" this small ridge in the plastic can be enough to cause a separation in the glass. Do you trim, sand or smooth all of your bulkheads before installation? If not you too are improperly installing bulkheads on your systems.

A little compassion and understanding, maybe even relating things back to your early days when you didn't know everything, might be more helpful in this instance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2015 at 9:19am
Hi Glenn,

You are right, we both went through that trouble with the bulkheads and you helped me out a bit on that. I am not as handy as you, so I had to take the route of having Cadlights send the items cut correctly to me. I was actually documenting all of my errors last night and ran across an email from them for the bulkhead issue. I had documented that Jason (I think a manager) advised me that they bought a circular saw to cut bulkheads as issues arose. It was good to know, but they were doing the fixing retroactively after they heard of issues versus proactively fixing them and shipping with new sales.

I totally agree on the glass cracking. I certainly did not over tighten with a tool or any other way. Its actually a bit tough to tighten with your hands in such a tight area anyway.

I will continue to pursue this and am pretty confident they will provide a replacement tank or pay someone to fix the tank.

Thanks!

Hi Sarnack,

Thank you very much for the support. I am torn about Cadlights still; the tank is pretty but their support when issues arise is horrible. Structurally though, I have read a number of posts about the tanks failing. Of course, any tank could fail and I do not know how much they sell versus what actually fails to know if their percentage is high. If I could do it over, I would have a local company build a tank for me and have a nice cabinet made. I ended up replacing the skimmer and return on my tank anyway, so its like I paid a super high price for just a tank and stand. 

Thanks!

Mark,

Of course you are here to say something… either negative or opposite of what others are saying. Years ago, I had a lecture course with this man/kid that would interrupt the professor all of the time to give his opinion on something or question the professor about his answer. It was predictable that he when he would speak up, that he and the professor would debate over something. I am still not certain if this man/kid this for attention or not; he was in his own little world and liked to listen to himself talk. I don't hate him, but he was pretty f**king annoying. I still don't know if you just like to harass people or are bad at communicating. I am not the professor. 

Either way, I am very inexperienced when it comes to bulkheads and how they are engineered and I admit this over and over. I will never be proficient in them or have a desire. I don't imagine you have the right tools to even determine the point that defines too loose or too tight. 

I blame the manufacturer as most people would; it was working, sitting, and then a crack was discovered. I know the tank was not hit, rocks did not fall, or any other issues happened. Its logical that anyone would think the tank broke on its own.

I will continue to pursue the tank manufacturer and blame them for issues. If you want, you are welcome to bring your testing materials, look at my tank, and blame me for the damage. :)

Marcos

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2015 at 9:41am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

It's interesting that a person with such inexperience with bulkheads and drilled tanks would at one point admit that they are inexperienced and yet then be so adamant that the problem was not theirs but instead caused by the manufacturer. 

Everyone looking at this thread should be aware that when a bulkhead is overly tightened, two separate problems can occur:
- the seal becomes compressed so that it loses it's intended rubbery properties, which when tightened properly, allow the bulkhead to move slightly while retaining the watertight seal. When that flexibility is diminished by overtightening, any sideways pressure on the bulkhead, even the sideways pressure of the wrench on the nut and especially a minuscule movement of rigid PVC pipe solidly glued in to the bulkhead, acts like a lever exerting pressure sufficient to compromise the glass. A crack may not be visible immediately, but the glass has already been compromised leading to future failure. It's wise to remember, glass is a viscous liquid that gives way (separates) under pressure.

- Secondly, these black plastic bulkheads we use are very soft plastic. They are not PVC plastic, but a version of Vinyl (like Vinyl tubing). When over tightened, they split, crack. bend, slip and fail. They are actually a good match for the viscous liquid (glass) they are used on. 

Lastly, and equally important, a properly tightened bulkhead and extended piping must be handled with "kid gloves" or either it or the glass will surely fail, sooner or later.   Sorry. Unhappy

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

Mark,

      You are off base here. You know nothing about the bulkheads and plumbing that come with the Cadlight tanks or you would not have made the comments you did above. The tanks do not ship with standard bulkheads that we are used to using in the hobby. Although the ones I used on my 210 are PVC.  Basically Cadlights uses chines (guessing) PVC that uses a threaded piece of PVC between two flanges with rubber gaskets. The threaded piece they had been sending when our takes were purchased had been cut too long. So when you assembled the parts they would not compress the rubber gaskets causing a leak.

    Also, remember these are tanks that are sold as complete kits marketed to new customers and come with no instructions on how to install the fittings. I had the same issues with the bulkheads as Marcos and many others at the time.

I challenge you to take a piece of 1/2" glass with a properly drilled and feathered/blended 1 1/4" hole in it and crack the glass by either over tightening a bulkhead fitting or putting sideways force on 6" piece of PVC. I would bet it can not be done prior to the PVC failing. This is not schedule 40 PVC, it is more like the PVC 100 or thinner when you talk wall thickness.

Glenn


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmw913 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2015 at 9:52pm
Marcoss, 

Ugh, so sorry to hear about the crack.  That just sucks!  Glad you got everything out before a full-on disaster.  

Have you given any thought to getting some local feedback from the folks at ReefOn since they are a distributor of CadLights?  They have been amazing to me and may have some very helpful feedback.  Additionally, if they agree that the issue was tank-based, it might really go a long way in your negotiations with CadLights corporate.  

Best of luck with re-setting.  

Denise

PS:  Nice to see an American Fork guy here.  Go Cavemen!  (Class of '92!!!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2015 at 6:59am
Denise has a great idea. I agree with her recomendation. Jerry/ReefOn is a great resource.

I'm sorry Marcoss, I did not understand the full extent of the problem with Cadlights tanks. I hope the info I provided regarding standard bulkheads is still helpful for some reader,

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ptronsp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2015 at 4:51pm
Oh WOW Suprise Mark is off base!! SO completely off base. Marcos I am so sorry this has happened. What a mess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2015 at 5:46am
What's the deal with cad lights aquariums? If they are so poorly built and have such lousy customer service, why buy one?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2015 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

What's the deal with cad lights aquariums? If they are so poorly built and have such lousy customer service, why buy one?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

Good question. I love the tank (glass). Not many off the shelf low iron tanks out there. I would never buy a system for them again. I would maybe buy a undrilled tank from them. But it is a fact their customer service sucks, it is all over the web. I know Marcos is persistent and I hope that pays off for him.

Glenn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2015 at 7:18pm
Denise

You have no idea how glad I am it did not explode or have a major leak. My wife was already hesitant on letting me place it in that room (not really but you could tell she didn't want it there, but since we are married, she had to say yes Tongue ). It took me a while to convince her tanks did not leak and were safe, she probably thinks I have the worst luck now.

I did not think of reaching out to a local reseller but I may just have to pick their brains. Thanks for the suggestion!

All is great with the livestock. :) The fish love their new home! But I still want to get them back into their old one.

Marcos

PS. I work in American Fork and live around, but grew up all over. Mostly in Saint George. I think we had a biplane as our mascot. Go biplanes? Sounds kind of lame.


Pam,

Thanks! Luckily I caught it right in time. I'm not the type to believe stuff happens for a reason...but maybe it does. 

Mark,

Glenn sums it up nicely; they seem to have nice items and when you first talk to them, they prove the rumors wrong. Its when something goes wrong, that what you read online is true. I personally gave them the benefit of the doubt. I figured some people were dramatic in what they were saying and that most people were happy and quiet. I was not as lucky to have a great experience. I'm with Glenn, I would own their glass, well, not after what is going on, but I would never buy one of their systems. I am super nervous about having my tank eventually replaced. Statically, its unlikely I will get hit twice with a bad tank, but you just never know.

Marcos

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2015 at 7:26pm
tl;dr

I say buy a new tank.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2015 at 7:38pm
Adam

That's always an option but obviously my last.

Marcos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elite-Aquatics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2015 at 10:08pm
Those holes are drilled way to close together imo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcoss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2015 at 9:35pm
Hello

I had not noticed how close they were together until you said this. I looked at my other tank and they are much further apart. I actually found another tank like mine that cracked the same way on Nano Reef.

Maybe poor drilling.

Thanks for the feedback.

Marcos

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uteman58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2015 at 6:30pm
I realize this post is a few weeks old, but holy cow? A little civility here? I appreciate Mark's willingness to jump in and share his knowledge. I appreciate Jeff's experience with Cad Light's. Aren't we all here to help each other? I am pretty new to the WMAS so I don't know but whatever ax is to grind between Jeff and Mark, please sheath it!
I just want to be allowed review both Mark and Jeff's posts without BS editorials attacking one another. Please grow up guy's!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2015 at 9:22pm
Could you please show where I attacked him? I asked him to be a little more considerate and then immediately addressed both his concerns and the OP's to get back on track. I have no beef with Mark. I've only met him a couple times. I simply wanted to curb where that post was going to take things and redirect it back to the topic. I'm sorry if you don't think that's what it was.
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