Facebook
Twitter

Utah Reefs Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - What kind of algae is this?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

What kind of algae is this?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What kind of algae is this?
    Posted: October 22 2015 at 9:36am
Not sure what this is or how to get rid of it.  I have been doing 20% water changes every 2 weeks.  I added a Phosban and Carbon reactor 2 weeks ago with no change.  I have decent flow and a good skimmer.  

My water parameters:
Ammonia - 0 
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
CA - 430
Alk - 10
Salinity - 1.026
Mag - 1260

My tank:
65 gallon 48x15x20
Bubble Magus Curve 5 skimmer
Aquatic Life 6 bulb T5
300'ish GPH from return pump to sump
Jabao RW8 Wavemaker
Hydor Korolia 850
BRS Dual Ractor - Seachem Matrix Carbon, Seachem Phosban

Livestock
Flame Hawk
2 Clowns
Firefish
Small Blue tang
Niger Trigger
Snails: Astrea, Nerite, Nasarassus
Red Hermit Crabs
Refugium - Himedia, Chaeto.  Chaeto won't grow.

Thanks for any help.
Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2015 at 9:38am




Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2015 at 9:55am
Dinoflagelletes.
How long has this growth been going on?

N readings are all zero? What kind of test kits?

This Dinoflagellate growth typically happens in tanks that were recently set up or moved or had a recent biological catastrophe.
Also, often caused by odd nutrients in the water. Using tap water instead of RO purified water? What is the TDS of the water being used for top-off and water changes?

Water changes feed the tank with all the elements contained in the salt mix. Water changes actually feed algae and coral. Excessive water changes may actually overfeed. I'd stop the water changes for a month and do the normal 10% monthly water changes from now on. Have patience. Under normal circumstances, Dinoflagellates can't last long.

Regarding the Halimeda and/or Chaetomorpha not growing, it often has to do with lack of intensity or insufficient spectrum of the Refugium light. Sometimes lack of growth is caused by insufficient nutrients. 

Aloha,
Mark  Hug



Edited by Mark Peterson - October 22 2015 at 10:05am
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2015 at 10:18am
Thanks Mark,

I use API test kits and Salifert for CA, MAG, ALK.  Red Sea Refractometer.  My water is filtered with 4 Stage RO/DI.  I don't have a TDS meter.  I did use tap water for a little bit when my RO filter broke and needed to order a replacement part.  

My Halimeda grows fine, it's the chaeto that doesn't.  Maybe it's lack of nutrients from my aggressive water changes.

Can Dino be affected by light spectrum?  I had a cheap LED before that had a lot of reds and I have a 5k home depot light over the refugium.  The new light is much blue'er.
Back to Top
jeffm View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: December 02 2008
Location: Sandy, Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 569
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeffm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2015 at 2:41am
Mark is right, looks like Dino.

K. I don't comment much but since this is something I personally battled for months and did a bunch of research so I'll give my two cents.

I use only 0 TDS RO. I have 0 phosphate and nitrate.Tank was about a year old. Corals growing great, but everyday when i'd get home from work (lights on all day) my sand bed would be covered. Luckily for me it really only showed up on my sand bed. The main damage is done when it starts to cover your corals. Something that was interesting to me was that it never spread to any of the 3 other tanks connected to my main DT.

Tactics:
1. Stop water changes! I think this had the biggest impact. I went 6+ months with no water change. I'm just barely starting to do them again.

2. Manual siphon. At first I replaced with new salt water but after reading that I was literally feeding the problem, I just ran it through a filter sock back into the sump. Definitely helped, but it still came back everyday. After a month of that it gets old!

3 Constantly stir it up. Finally when I was sick of siphoning I just start blowing it off multiple times a day. As in morning, noon and night. Big pain but faster and easier than siphoning.

4. Black out. With how much coral I have this was a little scary to try. But I was desperate. I did this twice. 3 days of total black out (covered tank with a blanket). I probably would not recommend this. I've read comments of people that felt this was sort of the nail in the coffin, but for me it just stressed my corals and after a couple days it was back in full force.

I tried a few other things with different filter media etc, but they're not worth listing.

5k bulb for refug is pretty standard. Cheap LEDs could factor in - but IMO would be more of a factor for green or red cyano. Dino is tricky stuff. And from what I've read most people feel the same. I'm still not sure why it started when it did and I don't know that I have the exact answer to how I got rid of it. As always, there are a lot of different factors to consider.

This was a 5-6 month ordeal for me. 2 months of it gradually getting to the point I realized I had a problem and started researching. Probably 3 months of serious work! And then a month of it slowly disappearing - or should I say slowly reappearing less and less each day.

Good luck.
Jeff Martin
Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2015 at 11:21am
Thanks for the info guys.  I really think it's on the way out.  It has been a lot worse over the last couple weeks.  I scrub the rocks with a tooth brush and siphon as much as I can.  I notice it's not growing back and starting to peel away from the rocks.  I thought it was cyano and so I used some treatment that required a water change.  I changed some water this morning about 8 gallons 10% and siphoned some more of it out.  I also replaced my carbon and phosban.  I removed the chaeto from my refugium and turned off the light.  Most of the dino seems to grow in the sump and this is the first place i noticed it. 
Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2015 at 11:26am
I also wanted to mention, I think its funny how much I spend on tanks and equipment.  Sump, pumps, skimmer, wavemaker, refugium etc.  I get dino.

and then,

The 40 breeder in my boys bedroom; 2 bulb t 5, couple maxi jets, no skimmer, no sump, no reactor.  Tank looks great.  Big smile


Edited by Chevmaro - October 23 2015 at 11:28am
Back to Top
proskier101 View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 12 2014
Location: Sandy
Status: Offline
Points: 314
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proskier101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2015 at 11:42am

Originally posted by jeffm jeffm wrote:

Mark is right, looks like Dino.

K. I don't comment much but since this is something I personally battled for months and did a bunch of research so I'll give my two cents.


I use only 0 TDS RO. I have 0 phosphate and nitrate.Tank was about a year old. Corals growing great, but everyday when i'd get home from work (lights on all day) my sand bed would be covered. Luckily for me it really only showed up on my sand bed. The main damage is done when it starts to cover your corals. Something that was interesting to me was that it never spread to any of the 3 other tanks connected to my main DT.

Tactics:
1. Stop water changes! I think this had the biggest impact. I went 6+ months with no water change. I'm just barely starting to do them again.

This right here.  my first battle,  I siphoned everything through a sock. like an actual sock that I use to wear. lol  its all I had. desperation.

The dinos went away...for awhile.

2. Manual siphon. At first I replaced with new salt water but after reading that I was literally feeding the problem, I just ran it through a filter sock back into the sump. Definitely helped, but it still came back everyday. After a month of that it gets old!

3 Constantly stir it up. Finally when I was sick of siphoning I just start blowing it off multiple times a day. As in morning, noon and night. Big pain but faster and easier than siphoning.

4. Black out. With how much coral I have this was a little scary to try. But I was desperate. I did this twice. 3 days of total black out (covered tank with a blanket). I probably would not recommend this. I've read comments of people that felt this was sort of the nail in the coffin, but for me it just stressed my corals and after a couple days it was back in full force.

I also did this, it helped and a bit.  but dinos slowly came back.

I tried a few other things with different filter media etc, but they're not worth listing.

5k bulb for refug is pretty standard. Cheap LEDs could factor in - but IMO would be more of a factor for green or red cyano. Dino is tricky stuff. And from what I've read most people feel the same. I'm still not sure why it started when it did and I don't know that I have the exact answer to how I got rid of it. As always, there are a lot of different factors to consider.

This was a 5-6 month ordeal for me. 2 months of it gradually getting to the point I realized I had a problem and started researching. Probably 3 months of serious work! And then a month of it slowly disappearing - or should I say slowly reappearing less and less each day.

Good luck.


This has been a year battle for me! Ouch

For me,  I think my nutrients in the tank were to high I think..  not from feeding.  honestly this tank doesn't get fed much. LOL

Tealgirl picked up a few sleeper gobies that sifted through the sand really fast. Well. the dinos have now gone away.   I think the gobies cleaned up what ever was breaking down and causing excess nutrients.



Back to Top
relethg View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 26 2014
Location: Farmington
Status: Offline
Points: 470
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2015 at 11:56am
I have 8 month old 210 and fought with same problem the same ways as already mentioned above. I would say lights out worked best for me. After I introduced a diamond goby my sand is always nice and white. Down side is he is always moving the sand around. I knew this prior to putting him in but think it is worth the trade off.
210 G Filled 18 Mar 15
120 G Filled 11 Jun 16
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2015 at 3:27pm
Stay with me here. I am going to throw out a number of possible solutions.

It's very important to know the TDS of the purified water being used. You didn't say what part was replaced on the RO/DI unit, but if it wasn't the RO membrane and/or the DI chamber, then you're missing two critical parts that could be the solution to the Dinoflagellate problem.

I'm not sure that it was clear in what I said before, but water changes actually provide elemental nutrients that feed coral and algae, including Dinoflagellates. Jeffm appears to agree, since stopping water changes is also #1 on his list. In other words, it's very possible that frequent large water changes are only exacerbating the problem. 

In my experience, doing manual brushing and siphoning are just a waste of time and effort. Getting to the root of the problem is the answer. Something is feeding the algae and there is insufficient competition for some particular nutrients.

That said, something that has not been mentioned is to use Dr. Tims Waste-Away bacteria in a bottle. It can provide additional bacteria and possibly add bacteria that is currently missing in the system. I'm thinking that this product would out-compete the Dinoflagellates.

Putting any tank in the dark should only be done for 1 day/2 days max, and only 3 times in a 14 day period, but Dinoflagellates are not completely photosynthetic, so I would not suggest this method.

Okay. As I look at the pics for the third time Embarrassed I would not be surprised if some nutrient is leaching from the rock to feed the Dino. I'm going to throw out an edumacated guess that this tank has been set up for 6-12 months and the rock was either dead/dry or came from a tank where it was stressed from bad conditions and even after this much time Coralline algae is still not growing well on this rock. Am I close? If so, I have found great success using a product called Poly-Filter.

Finally, to have Halimeda growing in the Refugium is actually pretty unusual. To have Halimeda growing where Chaeto isn't growing is also quite unusual. Which form of Halimeda is it? Pic?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2015 at 11:50am
It's very important to know the TDS of the purified water being used. You didn't say what part was replaced on the RO/DI unit, but if it wasn't the RO membrane and/or the DI chamber, then you're missing two critical parts that could be the solution to the Dinoflagellate problem.

I broke an elbow fitting moving it from the sink and back.  I replaced the elbow along with; Replaced DI Resin, Carbon Block, Sediment Filter and RO Membrane.  I don't have a TDS meter but think I should get one.  I might take a sample to LFS and see if they can test.


That said, something that has not been mentioned is to use Dr. Tims Waste-Away bacteria in a bottle. It can provide additional bacteria and possibly add bacteria that is currently missing in the system. I'm thinking that this product would out-compete the Dinoflagellates.

I started the tank with Dr. Tims All in One


Putting any tank in the dark should only be done for 1 day/2 days max, and only 3 times in a 14 day period, but Dinoflagellates are not completely photosynthetic, so I would not suggest this method.

I tried 28 hours of darkness.  It did not make a difference for me.


Okay. As I look at the pics for the third time Embarrassed I would not be surprised if some nutrient is leaching from the rock to feed the Dino. I'm going to throw out an edumacated guess that this tank has been set up for 6-12 months and the rock was either dead/dry or came from a tank where it was stressed from bad conditions and even after this much time Coralline algae is still not growing well on this rock. Am I close? If so, I have found great success using a product called Poly-Filter.

Dead/Dry Rock, all of it, except 1 3 lbs peice of live rock and live sand in a bag.  Tank was setup Aug. 1.


Finally, to have Halimeda growing in the Refugium is actually pretty unusual. To have Halimeda growing where Chaeto isn't growing is also quite unusual. Which form of Halimeda is it? Pic?

I'll post a pick in a bit.  It's green/white and has tripled in size since i put it in.  The chaeto was a very small ball and didn't grow at all.  




Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 2:00pm
I haven't done anything special here.  The dino problem is going away, almost gone.  I was going to start trying some things but I got busy working on my house the last couple weeks.  I blame the temporary use of tap water and excessive water changes.  Hopefully it doesn't come back.
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 5:03pm
Cool. Thumbs Up
How about a pic of that Halimeda? 
As far as growth, It could be that the Halimeda is upstream of the Chaeto, cleaning the water before the Chaeto, and that the amount of Halimeda is much more than the amount of Chaeto.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2015 at 9:34am
Here is a top down pic of the halimeda.  I trimmed it out and put some in my other tank.  It was about double that size.  It seems like the dino is gone but is being replaced by green hair algae.  While the green hair is not desirable I think it is more manageable.  I want to post some new pics of the tank and get your opinion.  Does dino go green?  I also have some coraline algae showing up, small specs of it on all the rocks.  I hope this is a good sign?  I had a water main break in my front yard.  I have been extremely busy trying to get it all back together.  The tank has just sat and haven't done anything.



Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2015 at 2:58pm
Yes, I recognize that nice looking, fast growing Halimeda. Thumbs Up

Dino does not go green but hair algae can quickly get out of control. Keeping lot's of Snails and a few Hermits is the key to keeping hair algae under control. As you probably know, it takes diligence to keep snail and hermit populations at sufficient numbers to control nuisance algae, usually more snails than most people realize. While snorkeling on the California coast I counted 1 snail every 6 inches in the surf zone. Though the surf zone is not where most of our coral come from, I believe our tanks are more like the surf zone than we like to admit. Smile

Aloha,
Mark  Hug





Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2015 at 6:18pm
Some updated pics for reference.  


Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2015 at 6:19pm




Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2015 at 6:24pm
No more stringy dino but the back wall still has brown.  The algae on the rocks is looking more green i'm thinking hair algae.  I know I can add some more snails and crabs to get that under control but not sure I want too yet until the dino on the back wall goes away.  It is thinning out.  

Does that look like hair algae?  Thanks for the help.
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2015 at 3:26pm
Confused 
That tank's gotta have at least 25 snails and 5 Hermits now, before that nuisance algae gets so out of control that it will require a lot more time and money to deal with. I'm not sure where the idea came from to hold off on these hard workers until the Dinoflagellates are gone, but I don't agree with it.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
Chevmaro View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2008
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevmaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2015 at 5:47pm
I added a whole cleaner pack from reefcleaners.org but most of them died during shipping.  I picked up some hermits and astrea's from birdworld.  Right now without counting I have 10 Astrea, 10 Hermit, a few cerith and a few nerites.  I keep reading dino is toxic and kills snails, so i decided to wait before adding more.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.195 seconds.