Facebook
Twitter

Utah Reefs Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Help! Is This Dinoflagellates???
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Help! Is This Dinoflagellates???

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Help! Is This Dinoflagellates???
    Posted: January 18 2016 at 7:57pm
Is this what I'm afraid it is? Dinoflagellates? This started showing up about 3 weeks ago which was about 1 month after a tank transfer. I originally thought it was diatoms due to a mini cycle from the move, but I am now seriously concerned that it is dinoflagellates. I have done 10% wc 6-8 times all my levels appear to be ok but I do know that phosphates and nitrates may not be detectable because the rate that the Dino consumes it. During every wc I carefully siphon the top layer of sand and try to suck it all up the best I can but it is truly unbelievable how fast this stuff comes back... like 8-12 hours and the entire sand bed looks like this again. It's not really growing on the rocks or corals at this point. I have only used RO water for top offs and water changes and I use red sea coral pro salt. I don't however have a DI stage yet in my ro system I don't know if this could be leading to it or not though. If anyone can please help identify this and offer any advice on what to do it would be greatly appreciated. I hope this doesn't sound offensive in anyway but I am hoping that someone has personally dealt with this issue. I only say this because I have done lots of reading about the issue with alot of conflicting info out there. I have also chased previous problems with lots of time and money based on opinion not actual experience. Thanks in advance for any insight you guys and gals can offer.
Back to Top
catchoftheday View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 01 2014
Location: Saratoga Spring
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote catchoftheday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2016 at 8:08pm
I would say yes is it all bubbly and stringy if so I would say yes I had it at one time and I did 4 day black out I wrapped my kink up with cardboard and kept the lights off for four days in this process I also ran a lot of carbon because it needs light to help it grow and if it does not have the light it will die off which creates a lot of ammonia so you need to run a lot apartment after the four days was complete I did a large water change and continued with my regular light cycle for me personally it was the best thing I ever did to reach its own
I currently have a 24 gallon JBJ all in one tank has two powerheads a phosphate reactor with the small bubble skimmer it is also powered by 2 X165 W LEDs and as a mixed reef
Back to Top
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2016 at 8:27pm
Wow that was quick thanks. I can only ever see a bubble or two here and there but it may be because I haven't allowed to sit very long without siphoning and water change. It is slimey not necessarily stringy. Stringy to me is like individual strands which it is not. but it is long and snotty. Wow if that makes any sense... Sorry looks like your auto correct changed a couple words on ya. What did you mean to say when you wrote "so you need to run a lot of (apartment). And also how hard was the blackout and the rest of the tank? I have a mixed setup of mostly lps, anemone, a few fish, and a couple sps.
Back to Top
catchoftheday View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 01 2014
Location: Saratoga Spring
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote catchoftheday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2016 at 8:32pm
Sorry carbon not apartments lol , also it was not hard at all I to have LPS and Anemobes , you know in the wild there are time when there at big storms and no light , any ways every thing was fine for me
I currently have a 24 gallon JBJ all in one tank has two powerheads a phosphate reactor with the small bubble skimmer it is also powered by 2 X165 W LEDs and as a mixed reef
Back to Top
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2016 at 8:39pm
Auto correct got me too... how hard was the blackout ON THE rest of your tank?
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: St.G & Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21375
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2016 at 10:48pm
I've seen this more times than I can count. I believe I may be able to give good advice. Darkening the tank and doing a large water change is okay, it works, I've used that procedure, but it's a lot more hassle than following the advice I will give here.

The stuff you are seeing is Cyanobacteria and possibly Diatoms mixed in. I used to think it was Dinoflagellates but I learned it is not. Diatoms are especially common when the tank is new. Cyanobacteria is one of the oldest and toughest organisms on earth. It is always in our tank and blooms when there is extra pollution and not enough biofiltration, like when a tank is new. A moved tank is a lot like a new tank. 

- RO water alone is perfect for a reef aquarium. 

- DI water is not necessary for keeping a nice reef aquarium and using De-ionizing resin will not reduce this problem. 

- New salt water only exacerbates the problem by feeding the algae (the minerals in salt water are just as beneficial to algae as to coral), so I would stop doing water changes. 

- One of the major sources of pollution is fish food so I would stop feeding for 5 days and feed half as much thereafter. (This is the advice I always give, which often stops Cyano.) Overfeeding is the biggest cause of algae problems.

- Find someone that can give you a large amount of Chaetomorpha and/or Caulerpa that they are harvesting from their Refugium. Place some in the display and some in the Refugium and turn on the Refugium lights 24/7.

- Please post a full tank pic(not the stand, just the tank) and a pic of the Sump/Refugium if there is one. That will help us provide further detailed help.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

P.S.
Have you seen the Reefkeeping tips thread about how to avoid this and other issues by setting up a new tank with lots of live stuff, especially Macroalgae? Remember, a moved tank is a lot like a new tank. The link is below in my signature line, Also read the Reefkeeping Tip "Red Slime/Cyanobacteria of many colors and how to eradicate it".


Edited by Mark Peterson - January 19 2016 at 2:12am
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 7:02am
Mark thank you for the advice. From everything I have read and all the pictures I have seen it does not look like typical cyanobacteria. Either way, I think your advice would be helpful for either situation. I don't have a sump, I would love one but the tank is a RSM130. Otherwise I would have definitely put some macro in a long time ago. Maybe there is an option of putting Chaeto in a filter bag or something so that I can put it in my main display and then remove it later on? I don't want to end up using a weed whacker when caulerpa or Chaeto get out of control in the display. Or does anyone have experience using the stock overflow chamber to house macro in the back of an rsm130d? I have quite a bit of room back there now with stock skimmer being replaced with the intank basket and tunze.
Back to Top
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 7:15am
This is the only full tank shot I have right now. I can get another later if you still need it.
Back to Top
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 9:36am
Catch of the day thanks for your input too! Don't know how missed your reply till now. Sorry. I think I will try the blackout I don't think it could hurt either way. did the dino ever come back after you did the blackout? Mark. I have always been fairly conservative in my feedings I think. I am very careful with amounts. I never feed a whole frozen cube of live just a small chunk that I strain most of the fine particles and liquid out of. (typically LRS) I don't always feed frozen I typically feed spectrum pellets once a day and only about 3-5 pellets per fish 2 clowns firefish and diamond goby. I don't feed my fish on the 1 day a week I feed my coral as whatever the corals don't catch the fish eat. I have 7 or 8 hermit, and several snails which seem to completely avoid the stuff. It also seem that I have lost several snails recently.. Catch of the day. About what percentage of water change did you do? Did you do it all at once or 2-3 in a short amount of time?
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: St.G & Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21375
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 4:11pm
I too have for many, many years thought that this was dinoflagellates, until another local expert, ReefdUp, explained it to us in another thread here in this forum just a few months ago. It's really much easier to eliminate than you may think. The truth is out there(here). You just need to know where to find it and who to listen to. Smile

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 4:47pm
Hello Mark, thanks for your input/advice. So dO you think I should or shouldn't go with a blackout. Do you think that the feeding schedule I follow is too much? I did already reduce feeding to every other day shortly after this started showing up. I also reduced my photo period a few hours at the same time. That makes sense about the water changes supplying food to this (algae) but how do I keep it from smothering everything and choking off my coral if I don't siphon it out? Vicious cycle for sure. What would you suggest I do next? Thanks!
Back to Top
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 4:53pm
what I'm scared of is this situation getting much worse!
Back to Top
Adam Blundell View Drop Down
Presidency
Presidency
Avatar

Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Centerville
Status: Offline
Points: 18156
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 5:42pm
All good stuff.  Yes on dino, but no reason to worry.  It will just pass.  Good water flow and filtration always helps but I wouldn't worry about it.  

Adam
Next Meeting: REEF TOUR!
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: St.G & Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21375
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 6:10pm
First, let me say that this looks to me like a mild case, nowhere near the point where it will seriously bother anything. It's good to be concerned and working on the problem, but there's no need to worry. As far as the dead snails, I don't know. I would have to see the tank in person to know for sure. Their passing could easily be a coincidence. 

It has been only a little over a month since I last had this issue myself. Yes, admitting this is embarrassing. Embarrassed I had been woefully short on snails for a couple months. I had recently removed some fish from the system to my customers tanks and hadn't cut back enough on the feeding. Alk and Ca also had been ignored and had dropped below range. The brown Cyano looked terrible so on several days I wafted the algae to send it swirling up into the water column and was chopped up by the powerheads. 

Then I simply added a bunch of snails and a few hermits, including small Pacific Turbo Snails and stopped feeding as described above. I didn't do any water changes then, nor have I yet done a water change in that system This two tank system is a remnant of my coral farm. It gets a 10% water change every two months, if that. Of course, Alk and Ca supplements have brought water chemistry back within range. Smile

One thing that I should point out is that cutting the feeding does not yield immediate results. Algae growth slows and it's up to the additional herbivores to eat up the remaining algae. In my system the difference was noticeable within a week and the nuisance algae was completely gone by 2 weeks, while I just sat back and watched. Smile

That tank pic is so blue that it's very difficult for me to get a good idea. If forced flash is used and the camera is positioned at an angle to the front pane of glass, the pic might be more revealing. 

One of the things that changes Cyano growth is water flow. Re-positioning return nozzles and powerheads can have beneficial effects. That's just one of the suggestions you'll find in the Reefkeeping Tip topic about eradicating Cyano. I assume you have read that Tip, right?

In this hobby, because each tank is a different ecosystem, not much ever responds exactly the same, so the things that recently worked for me, may not work as well in your tank, but trying any of the other suggestions in that Cyano thread, including a change in lighting (brighter or dimmer) the Cyano should soon disappear.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

P.S.
LED lights lose intensity over time, about 5%/year. Just thought you ought to know, because less light, yes, less light can sometimes bring on a bloom of Cyano.


Edited by Mark Peterson - January 19 2016 at 6:14pm
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
catchoftheday View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 01 2014
Location: Saratoga Spring
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote catchoftheday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 7:59pm
No it never came back and to be honest the water after was so clean after
I currently have a 24 gallon JBJ all in one tank has two powerheads a phosphate reactor with the small bubble skimmer it is also powered by 2 X165 W LEDs and as a mixed reef
Back to Top
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 9:41pm
Excellent info mark thanks. And thanks catch of the day for sharing your experience as well. I will keep an eye on it, continue to cut back on feeding and also lighting period. All my parameters are great so i guess I will let it get a little worse before it gets better for now and not do a water change. If I don't start to see a change for the better in a week or so I am going to try a lights out. I also have a microscope and I am going to attempt to actually identify the bacteria/ algae. Just for reference sake and to better know what it is I am trying to treat before I get too crazy. Thanks again for all your input.
Back to Top
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2016 at 9:42pm
P.s. Sorry about the blue pic it just happened to be all that was still saved on my phone that was an fts.
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: St.G & Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21375
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2016 at 1:38am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

I too have for many, many years thought that this was dinoflagellates, until another local expert, ReefdUp, explained it to us in another thread here in this forum just a few months ago.
 
Found it. My advice is to read that thread: http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77994

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
PharmaSki View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: August 05 2014
Location: Farmington
Status: Offline
Points: 212
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PharmaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2016 at 1:40pm
Reefdup mentions using a microscope. Is there anywhere or anyone that has a microscope and can confirm Dinoflagellates?

Edited by PharmaSki - January 25 2016 at 1:42pm
Yes, I'm a Pharmacist.
No, the blue lights at my house are not growing "pharmaceuticals"...
Back to Top
electricreefer View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member


Joined: December 18 2015
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricreefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2016 at 2:55pm
Hi pharmaski I have a microscope you are welcome to try out. But I am no expert in using it or identifying the algae/bacteria. I was going to pull up pictures on Google then compare what I see to what I can find online.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.219 seconds.