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SFReef
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Topic: Setting up a sump Posted: January 27 2016 at 2:51pm |
I am looking to set up a sump. I have a 40 gallon tank with a 20 gallon tank to use as a sump. Does any one have any advice on the following? Height of baffles Size of compartments and how many How big of holes to drill in tank Where to locate the hole for the overflow in the main tank How many holes to put for the return and where in the main tank Hope large of a pump to use for the return Is there a good place/way to put activated carbon in the sump? etc. Any help you can give would be great. All advice is more than welcome as I am trying to learn and decide what will be best for me. Thank you
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Fatman
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Posted: January 27 2016 at 8:13pm |
Baffle height should be set to allow for the system water in the pipes to drain into the sump without overflowing. I use two baffles for each segment to eliminate air passing forward to the return pump, but I'm not sure it's needed.
I use three compartments, you might choose a different number. First is the return from the display, it contains the filter and my skimmer. Second is a deep sand bed and macro algae chamber that also contains my grounding probe and pH probe. Final is the return pump and ATO float sensors.
For holes in the tank I use 1" bulkheads. Gives you lots of flexibility.
Where to locate the hole for the overflow? Are you adding an over flow box? My 120 has dual overflows located at the back and 1/3 of the way from each end. I like the look.
How many holes for return? If you can fit them in I like three, one for the return pump (for a tank this size 3/4 inch is fine from the pump unless you're going a long way, and TWO drains in the overflow to make a Herbie. A Herbie overflow is very quiet when properly adjusted. On all my plumbing I use True Union valves to enable me to adjust the flow and remove segments as needed.
Not sure on the size of the pump. I'm using a Jebao 12,000 on mine and it handles the flow fine at 70%. The nice thing about a DC pump is they are quiet and the flow is controller adjustable.
Others will have opinions and you will be able to pick and choose what you like for your tank. Let us know what you decide.
Fatman
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 28 2016 at 5:50am |
See the thread on this very topic "an easy sump/Refugium" in the Reefkeeping Tips linked below in my signature line, along with a plethora of other useful info that will help make your entire reefkeeping experience enjoyable.
Aloha, Mark
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Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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SFReef
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Posted: January 28 2016 at 7:55pm |
Thank you both for the good information. Does anyone else have any ideas as well? The more information the better in my opinion. Also, does anyone have any pics of their tanks and specifically the plumbing that they can share to help me out? Does anyone have a 40 gallon tank drilled for a sump? Thanks.
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Krazie4Acans
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Posted: January 28 2016 at 9:01pm |
I have a 40 gallon breeder that's drilled for a sump. I believe I have some pictures of it on the last couple of pages of my tank build thread in signature. I'll try and post some in here as well. Might take me till morning to find them. Krazie [: o)]
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Krazie4Acans
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Posted: January 29 2016 at 9:36pm |
Here are a couple of pics. The tank is on it's side. This only shows the return line in place but you can see the two bulk heads for the drain lines. This is from when the first tank failed with a crack down the side. I built another one just the same and it has been running almost 2 years now. I'll still look for some more that show all of the plumbing.
The return is a 3/4" line that tee's to two separate pieces of Locline. This tank is setup as a peninsula tank so the overflow and plumbing is on the end.
This is the cracked tank and the new tank together while I was working on swapping tanks.
Edited by Krazie4Acans - January 29 2016 at 9:42pm
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My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water Tank Thread:
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 30 2016 at 5:22am |
Hello Cortney,
I would suggest caution about drilling a small tank. Small tanks have thin glass. Thin glass cracks so easily. Cracked glass causes a huge mess. Spouses can get irate over the mess. IMO it's better to use a small tank without a sump-Refugium. Even though I set up the first Refugium among Utah hobbyists back in 1996, I believe I have perfected the sumpless-Refugiumless reef aquarium. I developed it because I didn't have the space, or didn't have a proper aquarium stand, and because it cost less. I can show plenty of examples in pics. You may already have seen them in my past posts.
If you decide that you must have a sump-Refugium, then use more flexible plumbing, as Krazie did above. Actually vinyl tubing is even more flexible than Spa-Flex. This will help avoid cracking the glass.
The space taken up by the overflow can be more room in the tank, an in-tank Refugium of sorts. I recommend nice looking Macroalgae, like any of the Caulerpa. Let it grow for a while over the LR, until it covers a little too much, then add a small Tang or/and a small Rabbitfish. They will be healthy and happy because of the amount of live food to graze on. Down the road, before the Macroalgae gets all eaten up, offer daily Romaine Lettuce and Nori. As Caulerpa becomes scarce, they will switch over to the lettuce and stay fat, happy, and healthy. A fat herbivore is a healthy herbivore. Just look at cattle.
Carnivores, like Wrasse and Mandarin, also benefit from a good growth of Caulerpa among a pile of LR rubble. Amphipods, Copepods and other tiny invertebrates populate these Refugium-like areas within the display, providing a constant source of live bugs to keep the carnivores fat and happy. Though I don't recommend a Mandarin in anything smaller than 50 gals., a Scooter Blenny, being a bit smaller would do well in a 30 gal tank set up as described above.
I didn't mean to hijack this thread in another direction, only to suggest what I have personally found as a better alternative for smaller tanks, per our recent discussions and visits. I'm here to help.
Aloha, Mark
P.S. regarding filtration 1)Algae growth, 2)the use of Activated Carbon in a media bag near the circulation pump or in a HOB filter and 3)10-15% monthly water changes more than make up for what a skimmer would do.
Edited by Mark Peterson - January 30 2016 at 9:26am
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Reefer4Ever
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Posted: January 30 2016 at 9:04am |
I would suggest if you can go with a sump it helps alot, as you can have additional water volume along with all your equipment in the sump (not a fan of stuff in the tank). Yes there is added expense but one well worth it in my opinion.
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90 gal reef w/refugium 24 gal softie tank 11 gal nano anemone tank 5 gal fresh water
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Krazie4Acans
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Posted: January 30 2016 at 10:03am |
This is one area where I completely disagree with Mark. Smaller tanks make it much harder to export excess nutrients from the system. There is also not nearly enough room in them for enough macro algae to do the job unless your tank looks like a refugium. Mechanical means of export become even more important on smaller tanks and having a sump to put it in is the way to go.
Here are a few more pics I found. This is the overflow area. The center pipe is the return line. The left pipe is the durso drain. The right side is the emergency drain.
Here is a side shot with the locline showing.
Here is the drain end of the sump.
And a side shot of the sump.
I do not have a full refugium on this tank but I do have some mixed macro in the area between the skimmer and the return pump. i use a Mag 12 return pump because you can never have too much flow and I also have a manifold on this tank that is fed by the return pump. The manifold feeds the two reactors you can see hanging just above the return pump as well as spots to connect two additional devices without adding another pump. Hope that helps.
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My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water Tank Thread:
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Reefer4Ever
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Posted: January 30 2016 at 10:06am |
Totally agree with Krazie on this one, or disagree with Mark how ever you look at it.
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90 gal reef w/refugium 24 gal softie tank 11 gal nano anemone tank 5 gal fresh water
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 30 2016 at 6:15pm |
Come on guys. This is not about agreement or disagreement. It's about the huge ocean. How many different environments are there in the ocean? Probably as many as there are different organisms, right? There are Sponge environments Soft Coral environments, SPS environments, Clam environments, Macroalgae environments, Grass Beds, Sargassum Mats, the list goes on and on, almost forever. In the same way There are just as many different marine aquariums, each one the personal preference of it's owner. Some hobbyists have tried to create some of the different environments. I've been at this hobby a long time, right? Yet with the 100's of hobbyists I've visited over the years, I still see a slightly different environment each time I see another hobbyist tank. Beauty is personal preference, right? Admittedly, I love algae. I love the color, the form and the way some of it flows in the current. Algae is a very powerful water cleaner. It's the basis of all life on earth. Biofiltration in all it's aspects both plant and animal is amazing. It is the circle of life. It does not take a refugium full of algae to do the job I talked about above. Remember also, there is Coralline Algae and soft green algae that eat pollution. There is a plethora of algae and bugs that thrive in a marine environment. Creating a marine environment is not so difficult and each hobbyist creation is attractive in it's own right.
In the pic below, can't you see the large variety of different organisms, both plant and animal? Doesn't it look beautiful?
Aloha, Mark
Edited by Mark Peterson - January 30 2016 at 6:23pm
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Krazie4Acans
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Posted: January 30 2016 at 6:39pm |
Mark you already posted the thread of all threads about the ways that you like to run reefs. The issue I have isn't with whether those methods work or don't. My issue is that those ideas have been around for quite a while and we know that they work if that's what you are going for. Unfortunately, that is not what this thread was about and there is also newer, more current ways of doing things as well and the OP is about adding a sump. I don;t feel like your information is supporting that idea or direction.
However, the information that I provided was not only about sumps but actually about the same tank the OP brings up. I think there are places for the information that you are providing but this reefer looks to be going a different direction. Differences of opinion are what have gotten this hobby where it is today and keeps it moving forward. All of those who have been in this hobby for a while know that nutrient creep is a pretty serious issue in some tank. Even more so on smaller tanks. Those nutrients can be detrimental to some corals and the success of the future system.
I am just trying to make sure we answer the questions of the original post before we end up exploring every option in the book and possibly change the mind of the postee. Keep it on track and present your info to those interested is all I'm saying.
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My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water Tank Thread:
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Reefer4Ever
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Posted: January 30 2016 at 10:57pm |
Could not have been said any better IMHO.
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90 gal reef w/refugium 24 gal softie tank 11 gal nano anemone tank 5 gal fresh water
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