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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: String Mucus on Frogspawn
    Posted: April 25 2016 at 3:28pm

Because we can tell whether the N pollution is a problem just by looking at the coral and the tank in general, the most important tests that we use are Alk, Ca and Mg. The best three test kits for the money also happen to be the least expensive. It's the Red Sea Reef Foundation(Alk,Ca,Mg). On Amazon right now it's $51.33 with free shipping. A really good thing about it is that the refills are about $15 so we don't have to buy the whole thing again when all we need is more Alk tests. See if this link works:

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Sea-Reef-Foundation-Test/dp/B004FUJ5NE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461617125&sr=8-1&keywords=red+sea+test+kit+pro

I would not get any Stars at all right now in that tank. Here is a recent thread about Blue Linkia.

http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=79684

Mandarins need live food and plenty of it. Feel free to search the many discussions that have been posted here about this topic too. The live food I'm speaking of is that growing in the system. Buying live food is prohibitively expensive. With all the Damsels and the recent week of no feeding, there are very few live bugs in the display tank. I would not recommend a Mandarin in that tank. In fact, that size of tank is the bare minimum size that could reasonably support a Mandarin's live food needs.  

BTW, If you are looking for ideas for your next fish, consider the Clownfishes(of course), the Blennies, the Cardinals, the Wrasses, the Pygmy & Dwarf Angelfish, the Rabbitfishes and the Tangs. Remember the Assessor that Ross was so proud of and how cool it was hanging upside down under the huge Blue Wall Hammer Coral? That fish along with the Royal Gramma or the Pseudochomis would also do well as a next fish.

Aloha,

Mark  Hug

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2016 at 12:39pm
So a couple additional questions are what you might suggest for a test kit. The cheaper the better. Also what things would be most important for me to test. Nitrate? Calcium? If there isn't a test kit that has all the ones i should test for most often I can always buy them separately. Thanks.

Also has anyone had experience with Blue Linckia Starfish or Green Mandarins? I am potentially intrerested in getting them but I hear Blue Linckia may be difficult to care for and Green Mandarins don't come out much?


Edited by Hottsauce23 - April 23 2016 at 1:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2016 at 7:21pm

Mg is well within range.

What I recommend is what a lot of us here use. The chemicals and how to do it is discussed in the Reefkeeping Tips thread linked below. It may surprise you that it's so simple and so inexpensive.

Aloha,

Mark  Hug



Edited by Mark Peterson - April 21 2016 at 7:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2016 at 5:07pm
Thanks for all the help Mark :) I owe ya one. Any specific products you recommend to raise calcium and magnesium? Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2016 at 4:38pm

Update:

Everything is looking soooo much better than what I saw in the image posted in the OP. No Frogspawn skeleton is showing and the anemone looks like an anemone. Thumbs Up

Alk 9.2 dKH, Ca <290 ppm, and Mg 1340 ppm. No need to check N compounds. I can see that everything is fine. The Nitrate test kit must be bad/old. Calcium needs to be dosed heavily and Alk will need to be dosed moderately as the Ca level rises.

We checked SG with a Refractometer and found it to be currently 1.020. It can be raised to 1.025 by topping off with salt water in place of RO water.

The fish are acting normal, eating algae and doing the things that fish do. This tank is headed for the StarStarStarStarStar

Aloha,

Mark  Hug

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2016 at 3:27pm

Nope, Nitrates do not create sediment or waste.

That is a healthy sand bed, supporting bugs like Copepods, Amphipods and those little swimmers called Mysid Shrimp. I wouldn't touch it. See the worm tunnels next to the glass. Big smile  Lot's of good animals in there doing their cleanup job.

Sounds like bigger rocks are needed to hold the Macro in place in the display. Yes, Damsels eat algae.

FWIW, it's not a fan, it's called a powerhead and the thing that spins to push the water is a propeller.

If there is something creating Nitrates, it is probably where the water drains into the sump. How is that set up? May we see a pic?

May we see a pic of the display as it is now? I would like to see a full frame pic of the left side and another of the right side.

I may be coming your way in the next few days. I'll text to see when we can meet up.

Aloha,

Mark  Hug



Edited by Mark Peterson - April 20 2016 at 3:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2016 at 2:38pm
Okay so here is an update. It's now been a few days of the sump light on all the time and the photo period of the display like 17 hours. Only one tiny feeding has been done. I did a water change on Monday night. Also most of the macro algae that has been in the display is now gone with alot getting trapped in the fan. I've seen a couple of the damsels picking at it occasionally so that is probably why I haven't had much success with it. The corals have come out a tad more but not much. I tested the nitrate right before the water change and just barely did. The color is the exact same in both tubes. So my only conclusion is there must be another nitrate factory in the tank. My thinking is there is a layer of sediment/ sand in my sump. I only put a tiny amount of sand when I started it up. I also see tiny tiny bugs swimming around in there. Could this layer of sediment just be waste and tons of nitrates? I'll post a picture. Thanks

Edited by Hottsauce23 - April 20 2016 at 2:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LakeCityReefs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 6:43pm
If animals are dying in the tank then yes, this will create huge amounts of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. You need to do your best to always remove dead critters IMO.


Edited by LakeCityReefs - April 17 2016 at 6:44pm
Here we go again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 6:42pm
If the Goby is not out much and isn't actually moving much sand around, then no worries. Enjoy it when you see it. The typical reason it doesn't chase the food being fed is that it's probably still finding enough to eat in the sand. A hungry Goby can be trapped using the Pop Bottle Fish Trap(google it).

Healthy fish are usually able to escape a Star or Anemone. It's when they are not well that they get snagged and eaten.
Brittle Stars are good tank mates most of the time.
Blennies are pretty good tank mates too, but they can get overbearing/territorial.
Yes, it's kind of crazy but the clean up crew takes care of everything dieing and dead, even bones. Not only the Brittle Star and Hermits, but Bristleworms and small bugs enjoy eating a dead fish, snail, etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 5:31pm
I have now removed the sponge. So with the goby he may not even be alive. I only end up seeing him once every few days before he darts back under a rock if I approach the tank. I also have a brittle starfish which may have got him. So if the goby is still alive any suggestions on how to catch it? He doesn't even come out when the food goes in the tank. 
Also if I were to invest in a blenny I would think the brittle starfish would have to go too. Correct?
Another thought about nitrates is over the past few months I have had some fish completely disappear not even able to find any carcasses of them. Maybe the crabs ate it all up? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 5:09pm
The sponge, yes it's a Nitrate Factory. Because there is a filter sock, I would remove the sponge. I know how interesting a "sand throwing goby" can be. They do have personality, but IMO they are murder on the sand bed. They eat all the bugs and worms that should make up a good part of the biofiltration. I would not have one of those unless there was enough sand area to feed one and still do needed biofiltration, like a sand bed of 16 square feet or more. There are many smaller tanks that house them but who knows how much better the biofiltration and tank health would be without?

There are many other fish that have cool personality but are a help rather than a hindrance. For example, Blennies eat algae and have a lot of personality.

Aloha,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 3:20pm
With the original salinity that is a good question because I had added .007 to the reading since I had thought i figured out by comparing it with other hydrometers that it was off by that much. But after cleaning it and comparing it with my brand new one they both read 1.021. I think I should probably get it tested by a refractor asap though.
I haven't really ever vacummed the sand all that much it was more just pushing it around since it used to get unevenly distributed by the fans. But in the new position of them this isn't much of a problem anymore. 
The only potential nitrate factory locations that I can think of would be the hob overflow box or the filter sock in the sump. I cleaned the filter sock a few days ago and cleaned the sponge in the overflow box maybe about a moth ago. Do you think that could be the problem?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2016 at 12:19am
Because the hydrometer needed cleaning when used for the first reported reading of 1.030, the actual salinity was probably closer to 1.033, right?

Well, unless the sand bed is packed with detritus, the sand should not be vacuumed at all. I can tell by the whiteness that this sand is not packed with detritus. It's important to understand that vacuuming LS disturbs the bacteria, worms and bugs. When they get messed up they can't do their job until they get resettled which can take 4 weeks or more. During this time, the biofiltration is not able to do it's job and pollution levels stay higher than desired. 

Nitrate reducing bacteria live in the deeper depths of the sand, like below an inch and deeper in that kind of sand. The deeper a sand bed is disturbed the more damage is caused to the tanks overall Nitrate reducing ability.  I'd say that the sand disturbance caused by vacuuming and by the Diamond Goby are each additional significant reasons for high pollution levels.



You probably know this but a review might be helpful at this point. Through bacterial action fish waste and excess food are converted into Ammonia then further converted to Nitrite, which in turn is converted to Nitrate, and then as shown above, Nitrate is eaten by algae. As mentioned earlier, Nitrate is also broken up by deeper living bacteria into Nitrogen gas and water. Along with bacteria, I believe that algae also consumes Ammonia and Nitrite, though I don't know the proportion/percentage.

Your test results show that uneaten food and fish waste, though becoming less (Ammonia dropped from 1.0 to .25) is still present. Ammonia is being converted to Nitrite and the Nitrite is being quickly changed to Nitrate. Unfortunately, Nitrate is not dropping as fast as expected or it may even be at the same level as before (previously reported as 80-100, now reported as 80). Time will tell, but we should probably check to make sure there is not a place in the system that we call a "Nitrate Factory." This is typically a place where well aerated water is falling/trickling/splashing/flowing over some kind of media exposed to air. Is there a place like this in your aquarium system? Is there a HOB filter, a canister filter, or is there an exposed filter pad or bioballs in the Refugium?

If there is a "Nitrate Factory" in this system, then doing a water change will be helpful, for a day or two, by which time the "factory" will have already produced enough Nitrate to replace that removed by the water change. Ouch

Aloha.
Mark  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - April 17 2016 at 12:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2016 at 12:35pm
I don't vacuum it that much when i do a water change I think it is mostly because of my diamond goby that the sand is white. 

I soaked my two different hydrometers in vinegar and they are both reading 1.021 right now. I just added a little salt to my top off water. Like 1/4th cup. 

I just tested ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate with my API test kit and the results are confusing. Ammonia was less than .25, nitrite was very close to 0 but yet my nitrate showed more than 80 ppm. I haven't fed for 3 days now, have macro in display and sump and also have increased photoperiod in display to about 17 hours and left sump light on 24/7 and added the phosphate sponge, ammonia activated carbon granular media and some of my own activated carbon in the sump. I think I probably should get a water change ready for tomorrow.

As for the skimmer I haven't done anything with that yet. With that not being vital right now I am putting it off til i am done with my schooling in a couple weeks. 

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2016 at 8:08am
The sand looks good. It looks like the common CaribSea Special Reef Grade sand. And there is plenty of it. It's whiter than I expected. That makes me think it's being vacuumed at each water change. Is that the case? 

I'm sorry. I should have said that the Ammonia/Carbon combo media is actually a good thing to use right now. It will get saturated quickly. I'd probably change it out every 2 days for a week and then just use Activated Carbon from then on.

Also, I should say that even as the N pollution drops to acceptable levels, some of the coral and anemones will look better. Over the coming weeks some of the coral will continue healing from the pollution burn and look more normal as they recover.

Has the Hydrometer been soaked in vinegar and cleaned and would you mind telling us what it's reading now? 

What can you say about the skimmer?

Checking back over the history of posts, your concern about the 18 hours of light is valid. If the lights over the display have been on that schedule for a couple days now, check the Nitrate level. Hopefully it has dropped significantly. If so, the algae has been given a jump start for increased growth so go ahead and change the photoperiod back to 10-14 hours/day. Leave the Refugium illuminated 24 hrs/day.

What is the Nitrate reading now?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - April 15 2016 at 8:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2016 at 10:16pm
I'm not sure on the sand it came already in the tank. I'll attach a pic though. The ammonia activated carbon is granular media. Luckily it was only a few bucks if it is for freshwater tanks haha. I will have to see if birdworld will test my salinity if they have a refractometer. I guess for now though is just wait a few days and see :)


Edited by Hottsauce23 - April 14 2016 at 10:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2016 at 3:48pm

And what type of sand? Do you have a close-up pic?

Is the Ammonia and Activated Carbon Sponge a filter pad or a granular media? Typically we don't mix carbon and ammonia media for use in reef aquariums(they are more for freshwater aquaria). In fact, after this pollution issue is resolved you will probably never need to worry about ammonia ever again.

Hydrometers are good devices but really ought to be calibrated before use(or after cleaning as described below), otherwise they may be off by as much as 0.003. It's okay, fish and coral can live okay in anything from 1.020 to 1.030, but it's better to be more exact than 0.003. Calibration is easy. Compare the reading to the same salt water measured by a Refractometer. All LFS should have a refractometer and be willing to test a sample of their salt water with both devices. Simply note how far off it reads and mark that + or - value on the hydrometer with a permanent marker.

A temporary high reading comes about when a tiny bubble sticks to the needle. A re-dip in the water is the quickest way to resolve this. Microscopic bubbles will have a tiny but insignificant influence. If exactness were really that important I would be using the more expensive and delicate Refractometer myself. Tongue

A longer term issue develops over time if the hydrometer has not been periodically cleaned by soaking in white vinegar for 10 minutes. The Calcium Carbonate that forms on the needle makes it heavier so that it reads lower than the actual specific gravity(SG, salinity).

Regarding the readings changing, salt dissolves quickly enough for water changes, but salinity does not change without an outside influence, such as evaporation or RO top-off. In my experience different readings usually occur because salinity was not double checked by the hobbyist. If in doubt, I check the tank water before the water change, check the water change water and then check the tank water after the water change.

When checking salinity with my Hydrometers, I typically measure twice to be sure I'm getting the same reading, or three times if the first two readings didn't match.

Hope this helps.

Aloha,

Mark  Hug



Edited by Mark Peterson - April 14 2016 at 3:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2016 at 2:05pm
Sand bed is probably like 3 inches deep. I will use rubble rock to put the macro in the display tank. Right now it just floats in my sump. 
I bought the seachem phosphate sponge and also an ammonia and activated carbon sponge. They are both in high water flow areas.

Also curious about getting an accurate salinity reading. I have used 3 different brand hydrometers to test my water and they all fluxuate. Also on monday the day after I did my last water change the salinity dropped to 1.026 now a couple days later I am getting 1.022. Is it normal for it to take this long to stabalize? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2016 at 8:02pm

What is it hanging on to in the Refugium? I always put sand in the Refugium for more biofiltration and for Caulerpa to use. Rubble rock in the Refugium is okay, and useful to an extent, but LS can harbor a much larger population of bacteria, perhaps as much as 100 times larger than LR, depending on the sand grain size.

Rubble Rock is great for holding down Caulerpa. Every tank needs to have some rubble rock, small pieces of LR (marble to ping pong ball size), because it not only makes for more natural looking aquascaping to have a zone of rubble, but it's a place where bugs can live in the display, protected from predators. Take a larger piece of LR and/or dead coral skeleton and break it up with a hammer and chisel or flat screwdriver. Dump all the pieces (and calcium carbonate dust) back into an area on the sand.

Another way to stabilize Caulerpa is to use an elastic to hold it to a rock outcropping or to hold it to a dead coral skeleton, or even bury the rhizome in a couple spots in the sand, deeper than before if necessary. As it grows, it will start attaching itself to the sand. For some reason I love pulling up Caulerpa that has sent it's "roots" deep into the sand bed.

Speaking of sand, what kind of sand is it and how deep is the sand bed? A deeper sand bed, or a less deep bed of Oolitic sand harbors more bacteria for biofiltration. I have a ton of excellent Oolitic Sand for $0.50/lb.

Like the Refugium light, leave the display light on the extended photoperiod for a week, or as long as you think is needed.

Look again. I wrote two brand and product names in that post. I doubt Petco has it, but your nearest "real" LFS, Bird World, should carry it.

Aloha,

Mark  Hug

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2016 at 6:18pm
Okay sounds great on the suggestions. I am excited to start making the changes so my tank can thrive. Just a couple of follow up questions. In the past when I have put macroalgae in my tank it seemed to always end up finding its way getting caught in the powerhead. Do you have any suggestions on how to keep it in one place in the tank? What I had done in the past is try and bury one end in the sand a little ways down and also put a couple shells on it. (didn't work somehow)
Next questions is does leaving the lights on the display tank for 18 hours risk bleaching anything? Or should it be fine? How many days do you suggest keeping it on for 18 hours?

Lastly is I am not sure if I will be out that way anytime soon to get a cup of AA. What kind of brand would you suggest getting if I were to buy some? 

Thanks again for all the help I'll definitely find a way to repay you for your help. 
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