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String Mucus on Frogspawn

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Hottsauce23 View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 06 2016 at 2:39pm

Last night I noticed a little string mucus coming from my Frogspawn with some on the shell nearby. This morning there was a lot more of this mucus stuff coming from it. The mucus color was kind of brownish. I did a small water change just on Sunday and the tank has been established for 9 months now. Any help on identifying what it might be and what to do about it? Thanks



Edited by Hottsauce23 - April 06 2016 at 2:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2016 at 3:29pm
Looks like brown jelly disease to me. Unfortunately I'm not aware of a cure for this issue either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2016 at 5:23pm

I'm not sure which Frogspawn you are talking about or maybe that's a Duncan on the left. Anyway, it doesn't look so good either. I'm seeing a couple issues with the coral in that pic.

Please 1) post a pic of the whole tank and 2) answer these questions:

A. What is the Salinity and is it measured with a Hydrometer or a Refractometer? 

B. What is the temperature?

C. If you know it, what is the Alkalinity level?

D. If you know it, what is the Calcium level?

E. What coral and anemones have you tried and what is their history in your tank?

EDIT> I had just posted the text above, when I found another new thread, also about your tank. I suggest we combine and tackle these issues together.  <EDIT

Originally posted by you you wrote:

]

I currently have 2 sunsun 800 gph wavemaker pumps In my tank on opposite sides yet I am still having trouble on making sure all my corals have some water flow. I have a frogspawn in which a couple heads on one side don't get water flow but all the other heads do. As a result they will not open fully. Is there any pumps that are better for covering a wider area? Or is the only thing I can really do is just mess around with they locations?

I have a couple pieces of small rock with some zoas on it. 1 I have had for a few months and one just a couple weeks. I can't seem to get them to open at all. The new one is about 15 inches down and the 5 month old one is about 17 inches. Any suggestions on what I might do to get them to open? Is it lighting? I don't believe it is water parameters because I have quite a few other corals in the tank that are doing well.

Thanks for all the help and or suggestions. :)

Okay, the pic I asked for in the opening will help with resolving this issue. Here are a couple additional questions. I'm lettering the questions so we don't miss any.

F. What size is this tank?

G. Is there a glass lid or cover over the tank or can you do a pH test early in the morning before dawn?

I. What is the lighting?

Aloha,

Mark  Hug



Edited by Mark Peterson - April 06 2016 at 6:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2016 at 7:59pm

It is definitely a frogspawn. But okay I will try to answer as many as I can.

A: 1.030 (Surprised it is running this high right now)

B: Temp- 79 F

C- No idea

D- No idea

E- I've successfully had 1 RBTA anemone, 1 large GBTA, 1 Rose anemone, devils hand leather, a green hammer coral, and kryptonite candy cane. I've struggled with zoas and frogspawn. The tank is 9 months old. I run activated carbon, have a protein skimmer, sump, on sunday I did a 10% water change.

F- Tank size is 55 gallons

G- No cover just a light stand on top. I don't currently have stuff to test ph with

I- Lighting is 2 Blue actinic T5 HO 48" bulbs and 2 Sunlight T5 HO 10,000 bulbs.

Hopefully that all makes sense and can give you some idea on what's going on.  Thanks for the help Mark.



Edited by Hottsauce23 - April 06 2016 at 8:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2016 at 8:03am

Thanks for answering the questions. I'm sorry I didn't have time to talk when we did the trade a few weeks ago. Okay, I'm going to answer the questions as honestly as I see them. I can see that the coral in the middle of the pic was a frogspawn, but it's dead. The coral on the left looks like it may be a Duncan. If it's also a Frogspawn, then I'm sorry to say, it's struggling.

A: 1.030 (Surprised it is running this high right now) I actually expected that. I could see it in the pic. (crazy huh!) If you are using a Hydrometer that has never been cleaned, the salinity is actually even higher, probably 1.033. Clean the Hydrometer with a 10 minute soak in White Vinegar and a rinse in RO water. Remove 3 gallons of tank water and replace with RO water. Do this once daily until the Salinity is at 1.025.

B: Temp- 79 F This is also contributing to the coral difficulties. Higher temperature combined with inadequate flow makes it difficult for the animals to breathe. Unplug the heater and let the tank run at room temperature, but not below 70 degrees F. Let us know what temp it stabilizes at with the heater unplugged. (Ideal is around 74 degrees and there are several good reasons for 74 as the optimal heater setting.)

C & D- No idea It's critical that you know and understand these values and Mg as well. After the Salinity is at 1.025, get the water tested for Alk, Ca, and Mg by a fellow hobbyist or a LFS and come back and report the numbers. I suspect they are low and need to be raised. We can talk about how to do that when we have the test results.

E- I've successfully had 1 RBTA anemone, 1 large GBTA, 1 Rose anemone, devils hand leather, a green hammer coral, and kryptonite candy cane. I've struggled with zoas and frogspawn. The tank is 9 months old. I run activated carbon, have a protein skimmer, sump, on sunday I did a 10% water change. Back in November you had a struggling Anemone. Whatever happened with that? It's normal for Frogspawn to do worse than Candy Cane, but the Candy Cane is also struggling. I'm sorry, you may not know it, but it is.

F- Tank size is 55 gallons. & G- No cover just a light stand on top. I don't currently have stuff to test ph with  Thanks, that's okay. I can figure the approximate pH. The flow is moving in an ineffective manner, not good for pH. Unhappy Take those powerheads, move them down about 8 inches and point them both up to the water surface so the streams hit at center top surface. This will improve conditions for the health of all the life in the tank, even bacteria. What that means is that the biofiltration will work better and coral will do better. You might even try disassembling, inspecting and completely cleaning the powerheads to make sure they are operating at full capacity. They look a little clogged. If they are broken, especially the impeller, I'd replace them with two $20 Maxijet 1200's.

I- Lighting is 2 Blue actinic T5 HO 48" bulbs and 2 Sunlight T5 HO 10,000 bulbs. How old are the tubes? If older than one year, they need to be replaced. Consider using two blue tubes, one actinic tube and one Pink/Purple tube. Colors will show better and coral will be healthier and happier. Don't switch them all at once, as suddenly brighter light will cause a sunburn. 

Now for another observation and a question.

The Anemones look a little stressed. This again may be partly a pH issue due to improper water flow and gas exchange, exacerbated by the high salinity issue. 

Does the Sump utilize an RDP Refugium and may we see a pic of what's below Question 

Thanks for being such a good sport to reveal all about your tank and to listen to my advice. Sometimes I wonder if I've been at this hobby way too long. Wink My wife tells me I spend too much time do too much for free. Embarrassed

Aloha,

Mark  Hug



Edited by Mark Peterson - April 07 2016 at 8:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2016 at 10:16am

Hey Mark thanks for all the input I will start to get the salinity lower with the 3 gallon exchanges and unplug the heater so the temperature goes a little lower.

None of the bulbs are older then a year.

With the anemone a while back that wasn't doing well I had found out that my white light had gone out and didn't even realize it for who knows how long. Once I replaced it they slowly started coming back and regrowing the tentacles.

So a couple of additional questions. What makes you say that the candy cane are struggling? Just curious. They seem to open pretty big and have good color.

Also if I move the powerheads down and point them upwards how will the corals get some water flow on them so they lightly move?

Thanks for all your help again.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2016 at 2:55pm

Well, Candy cane are closely related to Frogspawn so it's an assumption. I hope I'm wrong.

Are you using 1-2 cups of AC in a good flow area replaced every two weeks? AC needs to be moved around/jostled once or twice and then replaced because it becomes saturated.

 A water stream pulls other water with it. When all that water hits the surface it turns and rolls over all around the tank, lots of turbulence. Below are pics of a 40 and a 55 showing the turbulence achieved with just one powerhead pointing up and a third pic of a 75 gal utilizing two powerheads in like manner. Just for fun, can you find the powerheads in these tanks?

May we see a pic of the sump?

Aloha,

Mark  Hug




Edited by Mark Peterson - April 07 2016 at 3:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2016 at 9:37pm

Okay sweet I will get the fans moved downward. Also question about the temperature I've read that 80 degrees is in the safe range and that the average coral reefs run around 82 degrees. But I trust your experience with what is best.

Here are a couple pictures of my sump. I have marcroalgae, protein skimmer, live rock, and AC in there.




Edited by Hottsauce23 - April 07 2016 at 9:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2016 at 10:01pm

80, 82? Confused  I went looking for where in the world you would have read that. I easily found one reference to it at Marine Depot.

http://www.marinedepot.com/reef-tank-parameters.html

I've gotta go but I'll come back tomorrow to add detail to my answer in B. above, what's better and why.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2016 at 10:50pm
Ya I had seen it a couple places with some referencing a study done at over 1000 reef sites in which the average temperature was 82 degrees. My room temperature is set for 72 degrees. Would you suggest maybe somewhere in between? But okay sounds good thanks for everything talk to ya tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bstuver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2016 at 12:12am
Wow 80-82 is getting too warm. I keep mine at 74-76
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2016 at 6:45am
Yes, I had been seeing this temperature question come up so often that a while back I placed the discussion in the Reefkeeping Tips. I've copied it here for your convenience. 

Heaters and water Temperature, what's best? http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=79571

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2016 at 4:35pm

Thanks for the pics.

In this Refugium it looks like the ASM Skimmer is submerged up to the collection cup, leaving the exit pipe completely submerged. Am I seeing that right? If so, I recommend placing it on a raised platform so the Refugium water level sits at about the top of the intake elbow. Works a lot better that way. A round cylinder sponge can be purchased that quiets the exiting water and filters it too. A silencer is easy to make if the intake air tubing is noisy. Cleaning the venturi with a grabber screw is very important so the air intake works properly to produce plenty of foam.

Do I see a rusty metal hose clamp holding vinyl tubing to the return pump outlet? Iron actually helps the Macroalgae grow better, but it can also pollute the water and it can rust away until the tubing slips off the powerhead at just the wrong time.

If the electrical power goes off, can the sump overflow? If no, how close to the top does it get?

I see nice vibrant growth of Caulerpa Taxifolia. Thumbs Up

Aloha,

Mark 



Edited by Mark Peterson - April 08 2016 at 4:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2016 at 8:13pm
That makes sense with the temperature thing. Right now it is about 74 degrees so hopefully I can keep it around there. Also my tank is pretty noisy so I will have to consider your recommendations.

So do you believe changing the temp and salinity should solve the mucus problem. Was it brown jelly disease to begin with?

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2016 at 8:47pm

Well actually I am still confused about which coral in that pic you are talking about. I see a Euphyllia(Frogspawn, Hammer, or Torch) in the center that's either mostly dead or completely dead with only skeleton showing. From the pic it's hard to tell exactly. Maybe that center piece is the one you called a shell. It's actually called the skeleton of the coral.

The other coral is on the left side and is in such bad shape that it doesn't even look like Frogspawn. Frankly, it looks to me like it's dieing. I can't say whether it was a disease or not because it appears the conditions in the tank are such that I'm not surprised that Frogspawn has been having difficulty and Zoanthids are not doing well.

Aloha,

Mark  Hug

P.S.

I'm pretty confident with what I'm saying about your tank. I've been evaluating tanks in person at hobbyist homes and businesses for over 20 years and here on the forum for as long as the forum has been around (2002). Some of my own tanks are pictured here. They show that I know what I'm doing. http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37523



Edited by Mark Peterson - April 08 2016 at 8:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 12:08am
Ya its a frogspawn and a couple of the heads don't bloom at all and the other 4 do a little. I haven't seen anymore mucus stuff on it since I sucked it off. And I know that 3 weeks ago salinity and temperature were in normal ranges. So I'm not sure I can necessarily contribute that and the zoas struggling to just that since it's only been recent.
Thanks for the help Mark. Next time I see ya I'll try to make sure you get a good deal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bstuver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 1:27am
If things were off a few weeks ago it can take a bit of time for the full effect to effect your corals. Something is off if its all sucked in like in the pic. I even have an octospawn that one of the heads decided to start to die off but the half of the head that hasn't died off is and has always been out and full. Something is irritating it whether it's parameters or something else.

Edited by bstuver - April 09 2016 at 1:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 8:49am
Hello Dan,
I can see that more explanation is required. My intention is not to offend you, but to help you open your mind to learning this hobby. JStuver is a very experienced hobbyist and she's right. Something is not right with your tank. I believe that fixing it begins with dropping Salinity and Temperature to where they are supposed to be. I ask again, Are you using a Hydrometer or a Refractometer for checking Specific Gravity(salinity)?

The statements from your last post are below in black and my comments are in red. I realize that I'm being pretty forthright with my comments. 

Ya its a frogspawn It seems to me that you are missing the point. I'm NOT disagreeing that it is Frogspawn. My point is that it's in such bad shape because of problems in the tank that it's not looking or acting like healthy frogspawn should look or act and a couple of the heads don't bloom at all and the other 4 do a little. compare the pic below of your Frogspawn to the pic of healthy Frogspawn I haven't seen anymore mucus stuff on it since I sucked it off. Healthy frogspawn in a healthy tank rarely, almost never, ejects visible mucous.


And I know that 3 weeks ago salinity and temperature were in normal ranges. You may think so, but what I'm saying is that you cannot be sure. You do not have enough experience at this hobby to be sure of your knowledge. So I'm not sure I can necessarily contribute that and the zoas struggling to just that since it's only been recent. Have you never met someone who knows more than you?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

 


Edited by Mark Peterson - April 09 2016 at 9:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hottsauce23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 6:50pm

No I'm not offended at all I just feel bad for taking up your time haha. But yes I do have a hyrdrometer and I clean it regularly. 3 weeks ago it was 1.026. And my temp was about 76 until the weather has started warming up a lot the past couple weeks.

I definitely realize my frogspawn isn't healthy I have been trying to get nitrates down in my tank for a couple months now so high nitrates could play a part. Last week I also just barely put in a daylight light in place of a blue light so maybe it wasn't getting enough daylight.
I"ve got the temp and salinity lowered now to better ranges so hopefully I'll start to see some improvement. Still working on those nitrates though.

P.S. I'm not sure if you just accidentally cut the photo wrong or put the wrong one up but above in your last comment that you are comparing to a healthy frogspawn is my rainbow anemone haha. Probably just a mistake. Or maybe just the image got cut.
Below is a better picture of the frogspawn. It's not completely dying but it's not healthy either.

[IMG][/IMG]


Edited by Hottsauce23 - April 09 2016 at 7:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 8:07pm
Wow, did I mess up. Confused  All I could see in your original pic was a dead Euphyllia skeleton. Thanks for the info so far. In order to resolve this issue, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask for more information. What are the following readings:
Nitrate
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
PO4

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - April 09 2016 at 8:07pm
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