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WaitForIt... 
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 Topic: lighting schedule
Posted: January 03 2017 at 4:27pm |
hey all, I need some help. I am running an ATI six bulb dimmable fixture. Bulbs are front to back- blue+, purple+, blue+, blue+, coral+, blue+. I set the first channel to come on at
10am, ramping up to 60%. Off at 8:30pm. I set the second channel to come on at 1pm, ramping to 50%. Off at 6pm. The light is approximately 12 inches from the top of the water. Growth has been good on softies and LPS, slow on my monti and non-existent on my SPS. Last week, the birdsnest started bleaching and even my hydnophora started looking pissed. Any ideas on lighting? Tank parms are below: Alk- 9.5 Calcium- 410 Mag- 1350 SG- 1.026 Nitrates- 0.0 Phos- 0.3 thanks!
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kevin.st
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Posted: January 03 2017 at 7:46pm |
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Feed more. Your tank could be too clean. You also might need more fish.
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phys
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 5:18am |
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sps and montis need more light than the lps. maybe try acclimating to a higher light over the next few weeks. If they're brown and ugly, definitely a lighting issue. Parameters look good though. whats the temperature?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 8:12am |
Yes, we assume it's within normal range 70-80, but what is the daily temperature? Has there been a significant rise or fall in temperature within the last few weeks?
You are correct that lighting is at issue for this tank. There may be other issues but let's work first on lighting. I like to analyse the details. Here are my analyses and my conclusions:
 WaitForIt... wrote:
set the first channel to come on at
10am, ramping up to 60%. Off at 8:30pm. Growth has been...non-existent on my SPS. |
You didn't say which tubes are on the first channel. Assuming this first channel is actinic-blue light, it looks like the tank(also, assuming the tank is 75-120 gals) is getting approximately 8 hours of half intensity from three t5 tubes that are a foot above the water. This is way too little light for good growth and as you have indicated, is not even enough for survival of SPS coral.
I recommend immediately increasing Channel 1 to 100% intensity. Also an immediate modification to have it go ON at 8AM, OFF at 9PM will probably start to save the coral. If you like, do an hour ramp-up and ramp-down. Dimming is a neat feature of that fixture, but not really necessary. The better feature, IMO, is having the two Channels.
Remember, the equatorial sun shines on the wild reef for 12 hours every day. What is meant by "equatorial sun"? At or near the equator where coral live, the sun rises pretty much directly overhead every day, almost all year long. It's very bright. Also, SPS coral live in relatively shallow water where they receive almost the full intensity of the sun. Are the SPS coral at the top of your rock structure?
It's been a while since I posted the pics that demonstrate sunlight color and intensity at depth. See my next post for those revealing pieces of the "puzzle".
WaitForIt... wrote:
I set the second channel to come on at 1pm, ramping to 50%. Off at 6pm. The light is approximately 12 inches from the top of the water.
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That's less than 4 hours of half light! My recommendation is this Channel should be left as is for a week and then should be first modified to come ON at 10AM and OFF at 8PM. A week later increase intensity to 75% and then in another week (3 weeks from today) increase Ch 2 to 100%. These on and off times can, of course, be adjusted around your schedule, but the increased hours and intensity are crucial to tank health.
Now is the point where I would like to ask some questions: What size is this tank? How close is the tank to a window and which direction does that window face? Why is the light fixture positioned a foot above the water? May we see a pic? Is AC being used, how much and how often is it changed? What method is being used to control PO4 levels? How many Snails and how many Hermits are in the tank?
I know this is a lot of information, some seemingly bold recommendations and a lot of questions. It's all aimed at saving your coral. Discussion and questions are welcomed and encouraged. No question is too simple.
Aloha, Mark 
Edited by Mark Peterson - January 04 2017 at 8:24am
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 8:21am |
Enjoy:
Now notice how quickly the water absorbs almost all but blue-actinic wavelengths/frequencies.
Photo Credits: Jacques Cousteau
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Marcoss
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 8:27am |
Geoff, hey man, for what its worth, I do not think its the lighting, all the way.
I have a pretty sucessful SPS system, the one you see when you walk in, that runs 9 hours a day on just two bulbs, and 7 hours a day on the other 8. (10 bulbs overlap for 7 hours). They run at 100% since its a pretty low tech system, and I get great growth.
Also, I run a dimmable light on my frag system, and it only runs 8 hours a day (If you'd like, I can message you the light channels and periods). I hit a max of 60% for just a couple of hours and grow SPS in that system as well. I move SPS from system to system, and as long as they are properly acclimated to the light/hight, they do fine and continue to grow. The reason I don't hit 100% in a day is its a shallow tank, and I have racks with my SPS up high, and in the shadows/bottom of tank I have LPS.
Just wanted to give my two cents on your lighting inquiry.
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RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin
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WaitForIt...
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 8:27am |
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Thanks for all of the replies! I have about 15 fish in there right now, and they always look hungry. I think I err on the side of underfeeding, just to limit the potential of too much nutrients in the tank. I was nervous that the lighting was too intense, that's why I had turned it down. Mark, you're right about the bulbs on channel one. I will increase this one over next week, up to 100%.
The average daily temp is 77 and is not in direct sight of any windows. The DT is 125 gallons.
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WaitForIt...
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 8:31am |
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Thanks Marcos. Is the light too high from the water? I researched articles and placement of lights recommended from the manufacturer. that's how I reached the conclusion that 12" would suffice. My tank is approximately 23" deep, so maybe more light is better?
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It is possible that longing for something is actually better than having it. Satisfaction is the death of desire.
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WaitForIt...
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 8:36am |
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It is possible that longing for something is actually better than having it. Satisfaction is the death of desire.
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WaitForIt...
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 8:37am |
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having trouble uploading a pic of the tank. i'll keep at it
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It is possible that longing for something is actually better than having it. Satisfaction is the death of desire.
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Marcoss
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 8:43am |
Geoff, there is a guy on this forum that rents out his PAR meter for really cheap. T5s are very accurate when it comes to using a PAR meter. That would give you a definite answer. Corals can be acclimated to just about any light though; I have mushrooms at the top of my tank, around 400 PAR, and they grow like crazy. Most would consider that an SPS mostly area.
When you take a reading, you will have a general idea of how far your light is penetrating, etc.
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Reefer4Ever
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 6:47pm |
I run a 6 bulb over my 90 sps dominant with a little bit of everything else except leathers  I use the same bulb combo as you. My schedule is 8a 2 x blue+ on and go off at 8pm. Other 4 bulbs of 2 x blue+ 1 coral 1 purple plus are on in conjunction with the other 2 blue+ from noon to 6p. I did figure out with help from Jeff that I needed to feed my corals more lots lots more lol. I would definitely increase your lights intensity and depending on your no3 and po4 I would add some coral feedings in to your weekly schedule. My lights are also 12" off the water.
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90 gal reef w/refugium
24 gal softie tank
11 gal nano anemone tank
5 gal fresh water
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 04 2017 at 8:39pm |
Thanks for bring this up Geoff. I love a good discussion. I looked again at the detail regarding lighting duration and intensity compared to what others have indicated and I really think there's too little light over your 125. A six tube, t5 light fixture positioned a foot high, pretty much needs to be at 100% to provide ample light. Also, since there is no sunlight (even indirect sunlight is very powerful), I am confident with my lighting recommendations above.
Marcoss wrote:
Geoff, hey man, for what its worth, I do not think its the lighting, all the way. |
I agree, so it would probably help solve the problem if we knew the answers to some other questions:
1. What type of food and how much is being fed, how often? 2. Are the SPS coral at the top of the rock structure? 3. May we see a pic? (a pic really says a lot) 4. Is AC being used, how much and how often is it changed? (IMO, Activated Carbon is a must for every reef aquarium.) 5. What method is being used to control PO4 levels? 6. How many Snails and how many Hermits are in the tank? (This question has nothing to do with saving the coral, but when light is increased to a more appropriate duration and intensity, more Snails will be needed to control the increased growth of algae.)
Regarding fixture height above the water, there is a principle of physics involved. The amount of light energy that reaches the water and travels to a coral is a function of distance. The more distance, the more the light spreads out and the less energy strikes any single point. Shortening the distance can make a big difference. I'd have to see the actual setup but lowering the light fixture to 4 inches above the water might come close to 50% more light reaching the coral.
Well, that's enough for me for tonight. I hope it made sense.
Aloha, Mark
Edited by Mark Peterson - January 04 2017 at 9:08pm
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WaitForIt...
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Posted: January 05 2017 at 8:48am |
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Do you run both schedules at 100%? I really like having my lighting that high off the water. It cuts down on salt buildup on the underside of the lights and allows me to access the tank easier.
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It is possible that longing for something is actually better than having it. Satisfaction is the death of desire.
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WaitForIt...
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Posted: January 05 2017 at 8:57am |
mark, 1. What type of food and how much is being fed, how often? I feed a combination of LRS frozen and angel/butterfly frozen from San Francisco Bay. I also clip seaweed every day for a rabbit and two tangs. 2. Are the SPS coral at the top of the rock structure? yes
3. May we see a pic? (a pic really says a lot) I can't figure out why I cant attach a pic. i'll text you one today.
4. Is AC being used, how much and how often is it changed? I have a bag of AC in the sump that I change monthly.
5. What method is being used to control PO4 levels? I have a refugium full of chaeto and some cool red macro that I cant name.
6. How many Snails and how many Hermits are in the tank? I have 10 or so hermits with at least double that of nassarius, turbo, trochus, conch and stomatellas. The turbos and stomatella snails constantly have babies, so at night the glass is covered with them.
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It is possible that longing for something is actually better than having it. Satisfaction is the death of desire.
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WaitForIt...
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Posted: January 05 2017 at 8:58am |
WaitForIt... wrote:
Do you run both schedules at 100%? I really like having my lighting that high off the water. It cuts down on salt buildup on the underside of the lights and allows me to access the tank easier. |
sorry reefer. this one is for you
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It is possible that longing for something is actually better than having it. Satisfaction is the death of desire.
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Reefer4Ever
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Posted: January 05 2017 at 9:38am |
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Yes 100% 12 hours 2 blue+ and 6 hours adding in the other 4 bulbs blasting all 6 bulbs together. My struggle was to keep lps and zoas happy while keeping sps colored up and growing. Also remember excess nutrients in the water column reduce the par getting to the coral. Not that you have excess nutrients.
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90 gal reef w/refugium
24 gal softie tank
11 gal nano anemone tank
5 gal fresh water
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 05 2017 at 9:59am |
My phone is not a smart phone so please email the pic to [email protected] and, if it's okay with you, I'll post it here. Instead of entering my phone number, tap in my email address in the send text box on your phone.
[email protected]
The info/answers you gave make me pretty sure that the trouble is completely due to insufficient light. More light will make your Tangs and Rabbitfish very happy too. They will be able to graze at their leisure on new algae. The trade-off is that algae will grow faster on the glass and all surfaces, so more Snails (no Nasarrius, cause they don't eat algae) will be needed to control the bloom. This is normal for a healthy reef. 
Aloha, Mark 808-345-1049
P.S. Rusty's Reefs, a great new LFS located directly across the street from The Aquarium, which closed last year, is an awesome place to buy Snails. Astrea, Margarita and Cerith are the best snails for reef aquariums.
Edited by Mark Peterson - January 05 2017 at 10:04am
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 05 2017 at 4:39pm |
Pic received and posted. Do I assume correctly that this is the way it looks midday when both channels have ramped up but prior to increasing the intensity of either channel? As Marcos said, a PAR meter is accurate in gauging the intensity of light energy emitted from fluorescent lights. Digital cameras record light in a very similar manner to PAR meters and even our eyes are also pretty good at comparing/judging the intensity of fluorescent light. To me, this image shows a dark tank so I believe Geoff's hunch about the lighting was right on.
Aloha, Mark
Edited by Mark Peterson - January 05 2017 at 4:53pm
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WaitForIt...
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Posted: January 05 2017 at 4:48pm |
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yes, that's a bit of an old pic. still fairly representative though. That pic is before fish and much before any try at SPS
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It is possible that longing for something is actually better than having it. Satisfaction is the death of desire.
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