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My tank is fubar

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    Posted: April 06 2017 at 6:00pm

I am with Mark.  Mark is usually blunt and to the point usually because he has to be to help someone save their reef.  The OP might have thought he was getting a second opinion by posting a new thread and omitting facts that happened previously and Mark called him on his BS and brought it to light so everyone giving advice had all the facts to be able to give a more informed opinion.

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phys View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2017 at 5:48am
Bur has a good idea with the 10% water changes for awhile...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2017 at 8:01pm
i apologize, but i will admit i didn't read through all the posts...

have you double checked your alk reading against a different test kit?  A dkh of 6 is awfully low for a tank that isn't stocked to the brim with sps, I would double check it against another test kit, if possible. 

The only other reason I would think that it could be so low is that the salt you have been using was mixed to low salinity, so perhaps a re-calibration of your refractometer is in order?

I also will say, that typically if you have an alk swing, it has been my experience that it takes 2-3 weeks for negative effects to start showing.  Likely, your issue that caused this started a while back.  Likewise, it takes twice as long to notice an improvement from any intervention, so be careful not to throw everything at the tank at once without giving it time to show signs of improvement.

I'd suggest stop dosing everything at this time (including 2 part), avoid chasing numbers if possible, and do 10% water changes every other day for a week or so. This is what I always do when I run into problems and I can't figure out the reason - this little reset approach shouldn't be too bad on a small tank - just make sure to get a salt without too high of alk, such as basic instant ocean, match temp when mixing it, and make sure salinity is close.

Good luck and hang in there, these downfalls are part of the "experience."  Although, at times can make folks run away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote love2skiutah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2017 at 9:13am
Mark, I agree with your comment on tolerance.  But this is an ongoing issue. Off the top of my head, I know over 20 people who have been on these forums for years and they won't comment and come to meetings solely because of you.  I know individuals in the presidency that told me they left because of you.

Maybe you should step back and take that as a hint and maybe try to change the way you approach people?  Not trying to be a jerk here, but this is crazy how much people talk about you and the way you approach people on here.  

I understand you're trying to help and I understand you try to do things as cheap as possible (nothing wrong with this), but sometimes it feels like you really drive people away more than you're helping on these forums. 

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scfurse77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 1:13pm
Holy Smokes!!! Another post where Mark has offended someone!? Am i having Deja Vu? Or maybe i've been snorting to much soda ash. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chuckfu5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

This is a free forum in a free country with as many opinions as people.

I am sorry that you feel negatively toward me and my advice. I know that it can be almost unbearably embarrassing to be seen as making multiple mistakes. In an effort to help you avoid more mistakes I offered here some really good free advice based on my experience (which might be about as long as you have been alive). I am not the only person that has given advice here and it may seem strange to you that I could be so confident about my reefkeeping advice, but if you try it, you may find that I am right.

Everyone has personality quirks. What is really needed more than ever in this world is tolerance. Try to look past personality quirks and enjoy the benefit of each persons knowledge and experience. This is the way to make our tanks better so they will sustain animals rather than kill them. This is the purpose of the WMAS.

In the end you will probably incorporate my advice into how you keep your aquarium and yet will you thank me? It appears not, but instead you will criticize and call me a stalker. I'm sorry but I believe you just don't get it .... at least not yet. Smile

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

Mark,

It's not your advice that I feel negatively towards.....its the way you come across.  I'm not embarrassed to make a mistake do you want to know why; because I am learning.  These types of comments are what lead me to not care for you.  

Why don't you try taking some of your own advice and learn some tolerance....I don't care for you and your attitude so please leave me alone.  

I met you a few years ago during the reef tour and you came to my house and looked at my 6 gallon fluval edge and we spent a good amount of time talking.  

Your comments are very childish about your experience about as long as I have been alive.

I'm asking one more time to please not post on any of my topics.

I appreciate the advice but would rather not listen to your belittling just to get your advice.

Thanks,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 8:31am
Mark it's funny you ask for tolerance and then continue to rub everything in his face. Please show your own tolerance by respecting his request of not posting on his thread. Not everyone needs to like what everyone else has to say but we should be respectful in complying with a request that really has no impact to you personally.

We all come here for different reasons and we probably shouldn't do it with the expectation that everything we say or post will be used by everyone here. It's okay to disagree. Just keep it civil and move on. Allow someone to choose how they want to manage their own tank even if you believe it to be the wrong way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 8:05am
This is a free forum in a free country with as many opinions as people.

I am sorry that you feel negatively toward me and my advice. I know that it can be almost unbearably embarrassing to be seen as making multiple mistakes. In an effort to help you avoid more mistakes I offered here some really good free advice based on my experience (which might be about as long as you have been alive). I am not the only person that has given advice here and it may seem strange to you that I could be so confident about my reefkeeping advice, but if you try it, you may find that I am right.

Everyone has personality quirks. What is really needed more than ever in this world is tolerance. Try to look past personality quirks and enjoy the benefit of each persons knowledge and experience. This is the way to make our tanks better so they will sustain animals rather than kill them. This is the purpose of the WMAS.

In the end you will probably incorporate my advice into how you keep your aquarium and yet will you thank me? It appears not, but instead you will criticize and call me a stalker. I'm sorry but I believe you just don't get it .... at least not yet. Smile

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chuckfu5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 9:29pm
Ok....Mark I would appreciate it if you did not comment on any of my posts.....i don't care for your arrogant know it all attitude. I'm sorry but I'm not looking for you to throw things in my face by acting like a two year old and saying I told you so about the dead rock.

I really enjoy meeting people on here and have had great discussions with many people.

I bit my tongue when you got banned from fish 4 u but obviously all the other people's comments did you no good.

This tank will recover and it will be amazing....have I made some mistakes obviously I'm sure you have as well.

Please don't comment or cyber stalk me any longer. Find something better to do with your time please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 8:48pm
Mark and Shaun summed it up well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 8:44pm
Oh and two more things. 
The vacuuming of the LS also added to the problem. This new sand bed was just beginning to do it's job properly and then got all messed up. Sorry.

I want to offer a reminder of what I said in chuckfu5's thread last month about Xenia, that Poly-Bio-Marine Poly-Filter is the best product I have ever used for dealing with the pollution that begins to seep out of dry dead LR. It may even be that now at 4 months of decomposition inside the rock, seepage has reached a high point. I believe this is another contributor to the dying coral issue.

Sorry, I don't like giving all this bad news, but I do like to see healthy thriving reef aquariums and happy hobbyists. Smile

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 8:26pm
I agree with Shaun. There could easily be something wrong with the setup. In the other thread linked above, chuckfu5 tells us that the tank is packed with coral. I looked at all his posts since last year. In the last few months he has been requesting all kinds of coral, including lots of stony coral. In my looking at previous posts, I also saw a thread where I had stated my concerns with what I saw going on with this tank, beginning with the use of all dry dead LR. Unfortunately, my observations and concerns regarding how chuckfu5 was proceeding were not well accepted, almost criticized. Unhappy

If the animals can be saved, I agree with Shaun, water changes are the best and safest way. I would suggest 2 gal water changes every other day for a week or more**. I would be sure to use the Aquatic Dreams salt mix that was used previously. These water changes should help parameters reach and stay in the proper ranges as well as provide the other elements to which this tank had become accustomed.

Shaun mentions another item that has probably had a part in creating this issue. That this 4 month old tank is still going through a maturation/growth process. We might actually hope that chuckfu5 slows down and stops adding coral, especially SPS coral. Of all stony coral, SPS are the most sensitive to the normal changes that happen in new systems and when parameters get out of range.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

** IMO, salt mixing does not require 24 hours. Save the effort and just pour it back and fourth vigorously a few times before pouring in to the tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 7:57pm
Keep everything stable. That's the best solution right now. You should see your alk stabilize now that some of your corals aren't taking it in, so be sure to test. If you do dose, dose small. Often when my tank is low (6dkh), I raise it up to around 9 over the course of a week but I do it on a dosing system so I don't have to play with it every day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleepingdeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 4:54pm
|*I dont recomend doseing a system this small. The parameters will not be stable.

I agree with Shaun, if you're keeping up on a good water change schedule, you shouldn't need to dose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chuckfu5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 4:25pm
I'll check the new salt mix when I get home.

What should I do to try to save my animals now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sabeypets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 3:23pm
*A 4 month old system of any size is still maturing and the system draw on nutrients/elements is simply not there yet. There is something wrong in the set up to have alk issues already. 
*A stable environment is the most important parameter!
*I dont recomend doseing a system this small. The parameters will not be stable.
*A good SALT and WATER changes are all that are needed on a system this small to keep parameters in check.
What does the ALK and other elements test on new saltwater you are adding? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bstuver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 2:07pm
My guess is because your alk was that low and you don't know for how long the corals just took a dive days later and you probably thought it was because of raising it or the salt change. When I am not paying attention to my alk params and they have gotten that low it took several days maybe even a week before I saw the decline in corals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

Originally posted by chuckfu5 chuckfu5 wrote:

DKH and calcium have been running a little low.

Low in that statement could mean low for the target range that he is aiming for and not what is an ok range in general.

If his target is 450ppm then his statement is true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 12:56pm
I don't believe that calcium is your issue here but continuing to dose it isn't a problem either.

The real problem here is the low Alk and trying to get the alk back in line. 7dKh is at least a livable level now but it should probably still be brought up closer to 8 over the next day or two.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chuckfu5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 12:37pm
Calcium was being dosed as well 1 tsp per day.  I did not change that and it was maintaining around 380 - 400 when testing.  

DKH level at yesterdays testing was at 7 DKH.

I aerated the salt mix for over 24 hours with a powerhead.
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