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Silent overflow for downstairs sump

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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 11 2017 at 9:09am
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Here are two large screens that I have built with semi-rigid mesh that I acquired, I don't remember where, but I have more. Both pics below are of siphon (Herbie style) drains controlled by a valve.



The one above would partially collapse when clogged. 
Below, the same mesh as above was secured around a frame with white Zip Ties at top and bottom. The frame was made by cutting very large openings (~80% cutaway) in a 6" length of ABS (sanitary) pipe with a cap on top. Sorry, Feather Duster worms have colonized the mesh, making it hard to see the strainer itself. It's sheer size allows water to still pass freely, even after 6 years without a single cleaning. Big smile


Aloha,
Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deluxe247 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2017 at 11:11pm

I decided to use a 1.5" sanitary tee and elbow to create a smooth fluid transition into the vertical pipe. Standard PVC fittings may have worked fine, but I figured these are specifically engineered for gravity-fed fluid applications like this so why not use them.


Even with the top end of the tee wide open the drain is fairly quiet, but I added this small gate valve. my thinking was that I may have to close off the air intake a little to cut down as much as possible on any remaining noise, but it turns out the internal geometry of the gate valve creates some pretty good sound baffles, rendering the drain virtually silent. I've left it wide open, and the only sound I here now is the small trickle of water as it falls about 3/4" through the weir.

I have to close the valve roughly 50% to induce a siphon, which I believe tells me the drain has quite a bit more capacity. My next goal is to find a big intake strainer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deluxe247 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2017 at 8:58pm
Ok. So here's an update on the situation. First, thank you for the great info! Mark and I did have a good conversation about several of my tank's issues, the drain being one of them. My hair algae problem is kind of related. Also, I appreciate the info on herbie flavor drains. I've heard a bit about them and bean style, and I've started doing some more in-depth research on both as well as durso style drains. It's very possible that at some point I will convert my existing return line into an emergency drain and install a new return line, and that would be an awesome project involving fishing a pipe up thru the wall cavity (since another hole in the hardwood floor wood likely result in my violent death at the hands of my wife). I really would like to to that project but don't have the time right now. In the meantime I have put together what I think is a pretty nice durso drain. This thing has lots of capacity and runs much quieter than the last drain when sucking air. And although the water level in the overflow is quite high, I believe the capacity of the drain is high enough to accommodate any flow fluctuations. I'll post some photos soon.
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MadReefer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadReefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2017 at 5:20pm
I'm glad you were able to help him, Mark. I expected two drain pipes.
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2017 at 2:19pm
Correction to above, where I said,

"The Cap is sized 0.5" diameter larger than the standpipe."

In the case of the four posts the Cap is actually the same size as the standpipe, but you can see from the pic of the device at my shop that the cap floating above the standpipe is larger diameter. The larger cap allows more water to pass down the drain. In most recent instances I have glued an "X" or "Y" of thin cut PVC or other plastic spacers inside the cap to hold it above the Standpipe, it's own weight holding it in position. It is an advantage in that it can be easily removed or even pushed up or aside by any large debri that needs to go down the drain.

Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2017 at 2:03pm
Visited with Rich yesterday and saw the set up. He then came to my shop where we examined and discussed my Modified Durso with Muffler. See below for some pics.

It would take some extensive work to make the return go up the outside back of Rich's tank to allow an emergency drain in the overflow. Without an emergency drain the tank has flooded a few times due to the small screen getting clogged that sits on the top of the standpipe above the gate valve. A larger screen would really help but the amount of hair algae in the system really needs to be addressed to make the drain screen obsolete.

I really enjoyed my morning with Rich. He is awesome. He left my shop to go back to the drawing board with lots of good information, tips and even AA and AC for reducing nuisance algae and addressing other issues. Wink  Rich is an Architect by trade and a fellow tinkerer in the hobby. Big smile

Modified Durso top view. The Air Hole can be seen in the center of the cap. This was my coral farming tank in 2005-2007


Below is a pic with the Cap removed to show 4 posts that hold the cap in position, at the proper height, so water can flow under and up past the lip of the cup and then down the standpipe. Note that there is no drain screen. I have found it to be unnecessary.


As seen above, the top of the standpipe has been delicately cut away to leave four posts. It is preferred to use a bushing to run larger pipe for the top of the standpipe. The usual 1" can be easily bushed up to 1.25" or 1.5". This significantly enlarges the spillway allowing more volume of water to fall unobstructed down the sides of the standpipe. The cap is sized 0.5" diameter larger than the standpipe. The Modified Durso is more compact and easier to work with than the standard Durso and because of the larger unobstructed spillway it can handle more water and is generally quieter too. Smile

Here is a old pic of the Muffler/Silencer that I made for a skimmer that also works for the Durso. The longer distance of drain piping to the sump in another room or the basement means that the falling water pulls more air with it, requiring the Durso to have a larger Air Hole and a Muffler. A stubby piece of stiff tubing connects the bottom of the Muffler to the Air Hole in the Cap of the Durso device.


Here are pics of the Modified Durso on the system currently running at my shop. This is a 30 gal breeder that was previously drilled in the bottom back center directly underneath this tanks center brace. That location would not have been my first choice but it worked out well because the Cap can be positioned perfectly over the standpipe and then slid sideways periodically to allow surface scum to go down the drain.






Aloha,
Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corey Price Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2017 at 9:03pm
I've been there, done that. It takes some effort to tune. The recent addition of a Durso drain in addition to the standard gate valved drain and emergency drain helps to reduce the need for constant tuning.

If you haven't hooked up an emergency drain, as others have said, you need it. It will prevent floods!

Corey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knowen87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2017 at 9:59am
If you have a reef ready tank ie only two holes you can use them both as drain holes. Use the 1" as the main drain. and the 3/4" as the backup.  Then you can run PVC on the outside of the back of the tank as your return. Then you can go down to the basement (I also have done that) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knowen87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2017 at 9:55am
Do you have two pipes in the overflow? When you say flooding it sounds like you only have 1 pipe. I have used herbie overflows for the most part. I have never had issues with sound as long as I have had 2 pipes coming out pf the overflow. The overflow with the valve takes most of the flow ( this has to be tuned but they dont tend to be too finiky). The second overflow pipe takes in the variation in water level but it is very little so it doesn't make any noise. 

Image result for herbie overflow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2017 at 5:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadReefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2017 at 12:16am
Sorry. Dumb comment deleted.
I've always wanted to drain to a fish room and add a large water volume to a cleaner, quieter display without sacrificing the benefits of all the noise and mess. I hope you figure it out.

Edited by MadReefer - October 08 2017 at 10:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deluxe247 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 9:54pm
Has anyone ever successfully executed a silent overflow on a system with a sump that is in the basement rather than just below the tank in the stand or on the floor in an adjacent room? I've been running my 90G tank for 5 years with the sump in the basement and the display tank on the main floor. I've tried a couple of different standpipe configurations and always run a gate valve on the drain line. But it has always been next to impossible to tune it just right to maintain the right level in the overflow without flooding or sucking air.

It seems the extra height adds another layer of difficulty to the equation. every time I think I get it set, I come back later on and it's either close to flooding or making ungodly slurping noises. I think part of it may be the head height exaggerates any minor variations in the pump flow rate.

Any ideas would be appreciated.
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