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Suzy 
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 Topic: LFS Grievences
Posted: October 16 2005 at 10:19am |
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Ok, guys! I have been really upset with some of our LFS owners!
I have a rule about my relationships: I can be mad at somebody, but it
has to have a time limit!
So, I plan on being mad at these guys 'till November!
Until then, I want to use our forum to discuss some of their beefs. There
are quite a few different grievences, some valid, some not so much, IMO. I
am going to try to tell you what they told me.
First, these are guys I really have considered my friends, and I don't want
them to be alienated against the WMAS, but even more, I don't want them
to not be my friends anymore, so I want this thread to be my way of
making you understand what they are thinking..
I really don't want to hurt their businesses at all, so please keep your
minds open and try to see where they are coming from?
Is this possible? Can we discuss these issues without alienating them
even more?
And, if I get their issues mixed up, I hope they will correct me here. I
know they read our forum...
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dmanshep
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 10:32am |
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Curious, and i'm not sure I understand who you have a beef with , I hope this doesn't turn into another this lfs is bad this lfs is good thread.. I had a very nice and informative discussion with a lfs owner down south yesterday and there wasn't any wierdness.. Who are you talking about??
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bugzme
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 10:54am |
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I don't think we need to discuss this any more. We have all had our say and we know where we stand and we all have our favorite shops.
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Jeff
125 tank
50 gallon sump
T-5 lighting
Rum drinker, Carbon User
I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!
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reefnut
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 10:58am |
Why are you stirring the pot yet again? The "other" thread has died and now here you are bringing this around again. Just let it go! The LFS are not the ones that have the problem IMO. What are you trying to prove? Just agree to disagree and move on. If you do not want to shop at a certain store then dont. But dont sit here and bash the LFS and try to get everyone else to agree with you.
BTW - Shawn at Aquatica just opened his new store. It is bigger and better than ever! Congratulations Shawn.  He just brought in a Fiji Acro shipment that was awesome. All of the pieces were at least the size of baseballs and every piece was only $49.95! Who says my LFS is not supporting me?
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 11:29am |
Who says my LFS is not supporting me?
Not that I care to get into this and I too am tired of drama, but there is a big difference between stores that support you, and stores that support the club. I personally believe this difference is why we have so many discussions like this about which store people will or will not shop at. It's why people throw a fit when someone says something they don't agree with. Like Jeff said we all have our favorite stores, and we all wish they would do their part to make this club even more successful. (I'm happy to say that a couple stores recently told the presidency of their goals to make some large contributions to the club)
Adam
(oh, and I really like Aquatica and am looking forward to seeing this new store)
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Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
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Suzy
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 11:59am |
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GUYS! Wait! I don't want to bash them! I want to tell you why they are
upset with us, and maybe there are things we can do to improver our
relationship with them....
I was not going to mention names, because there are stores that put up
our signs that have complaints about some of our members practices...
They do have valid complaints...
I only want to do this if we can be civil, not bash anybody, not mention
any names, not say this is my favorite,ect..
I really like these guys...
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 12:37pm |
Well in that case, I say yes there are things we could do which would make local stores really appreciate us.
Unfortunately I don't know what those things are, and how they differ for each store. Seems to me like some stores really do like us (personally and professionaly) so why other don't.... well I guess I'm as lost as you are.
Adam
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Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
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rstruhs
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 1:15pm |
Suzy, are they upset with the club, club members only, or certain people? It sounds like they do not like something some people are doing or asking for. That is just human nature. Just like we all do not like the same store, I am sure that each store has their favorite type of customer!
Please let us know what their complaints are, then we can correct our own ways or resolve the issues.
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Rodney, Sandra, Jeffery, and Laura Struhs
South Jordan, Utah 98th South & 40th West.
(801) 282-2744
75 gallon reef
55 gallon reef
55 gallon FOWLR
20 gallon FOWLR
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reptoreef
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 1:37pm |
Is there anyway to advertise for our "open supporters" on this board... I believe that if we're to want them to promote us(without prompt), we may be able to do the same for them. Here's my suggestion... a banner that resembles those on commercial sites that will link those who are curious to their profile/location on the pet store page. I'm sure that with some extra effort on our part to promote those who support the club, there may be more "interested supporters"... who would find it lucritive to support the WMAS in trade trade for advertisement... no losers. Heck, maybe they'll even get a bit competitive and push our club a bit... it's worth a try, right??? Just my 2 cents.
Jason
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www.captivereefing.com
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Suzy
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 4:35pm |
 Adam Blundell wrote:
Seems to me like some stores really do like
us (personally and professionaly) so why other don't....
Adam |
Ok, I gotta tell you a conversation I had with one of supporting stores: I'm in this store, shopping, and I mentioned how a few stores were refusing to put up our flyers. This guy says to me "That's not smart. It's much better to keep your enemies close....". Quickly the statement was retracted with "Not that you guys are enemies or anything...." It was a slip of the Freudian tongue, but I think even our outward supporters are stressed with our relationship. I have had owners tell me how they think "other stores" are upset with us...
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Suzy
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 4:38pm |
rstruhs wrote:
Suzy, are they upset with the club, club members
only, or certain people? Please let us know what their complaints are,
then we can correct our own ways or resolve the issues.
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Yes, the club in ways and certain things some of us do... Can we keep it civil? Can we agree that anyone who gets personal or is generally negative gets taken out to The Festivus pole?
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Suzy
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 4:42pm |
reptoreef wrote:
Is there anyway to advertise for our "open
supporters" on this board....
Jason |
Lets dicuss that after we discuss their beefs? Ok, so how about this? I start another more positive thread? I will link to this thread for anyone who feels he must say something negative?
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Suzy
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 5:35pm |
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Here's the first beef:
OK, so I can't remember the exact words so I'm paraphrasing, OK?
"I don't think it's fair to me when someone comes in and asks a lot of
questions and I spend a lot of time with them, then they go buy the stuff
elsewhere. i understand it is the American way to find a product for the
lowest price, but my time is also worth something.".
What do you think, guys? Anyone out there guilty of this one?
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rstruhs
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 6:19pm |
I know some of the store owners may think I have done that. So I am guilty!
However, just because I did not buy anything that day does not mean that I have not gone back to buy something later! They (the store) may have talked me out of what I was thinking of getting (The fish/coral/crab that I was thinking about buying may not have been a good fit for my other pets.).
To make them feel better about giving advice to us, we should tell them thanks at the very least. And in light of this revelation, we should tell them why and let them know we appreciate their honesty and integrity and will come back to buy something else!
Any other thoughts?
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Rodney, Sandra, Jeffery, and Laura Struhs
South Jordan, Utah 98th South & 40th West.
(801) 282-2744
75 gallon reef
55 gallon reef
55 gallon FOWLR
20 gallon FOWLR
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bugzme
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 6:32pm |
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Alot of the time I get alot better advice from this message board. I've even told Eric he's wrong. Even though he is the king of keeping acro's.
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Jeff
125 tank
50 gallon sump
T-5 lighting
Rum drinker, Carbon User
I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!
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reefnut
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 10:41pm |
This is all very simple. Just put yourself in their shoes for a minute. Imagine that you own a LFS. You have 3 employees and you pay them all $8 per hour. After matching payroll taxes, worker comp, etc. you are actually paying them close to $10 per hour. Now imagine that you have someone that always comes in, asks questions and takes up alot of time with your employees. Then this same person leaves and gets on the internet to buy the products that they just received advice on from the LFS. Wouldnt you be upset if you were the owner?
How about this one. Someone once posted on this board that they were in a LFS and overheard an employee talking with a customer. They felt like the customer was being charged too much for something or being given bad advice. After the employee walked off this person proceeded to had out a card for the WMAS to the customer! If I was the owner and I caught someone doing this I would prosecute them!
Bottom line, tell me what this club gives back to the LFS. Dont tell me that it is your business because that is a given. Whether you are part of this club or not you buy things at a LFS. I think that the big problem the club has when it comes to the LFS is that alot of times the club takes business away from the LFS instead of adding to it. If you were a LFS owner would you support that?
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jeffras
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 10:48pm |
Suzy wrote:
"I don't think it's fair to me when someone comes in and asks a lot of
questions and I spend a lot of time with them, then they go buy the stuff
elsewhere. i understand it is the American way to find a product for the
lowest price, but my time is also worth something."
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OK,
Say I go into Home Depot or Lowes and talk to an employee for an hour
about what needs to be done to install a sprinkler system in my back
yard. I then decide either that installing the system myself is not a
good idea or that i'm not ready to purchase everything without mapping
out my yard and digging some trenches. Or I look at their prices and
they are not competitive so I look elsewhere, Should they be mad at me?
Absolutely not!!
They should be proud that they provided me with one of the most
important things a consumer can have -- Knowledge. If i agree with
their opinions, then I will most likely return for repeat business down
the road.
Anyone who runs a business should expect exactly this to happen more
then once. The fact is that they are building a customer relationship
and that if they provide a quality service at a competitive price and
also provide excellent customer service, they will experience a great
amount of customer loyalty.
If they do not provide a quality product or a competitive price, am I
the consumer obligated to purchase from that supplier? Not even if they
answered questions for me! The fact is that the "American Way" is more
about free enterprise and if this LFS is worried about not being able
to "hook" the customer then they had better look at what makes
themselves a valuable supplier. Do they provide these three things? If
so then they have nothing to worry about.
Just because you are the smartest, biggest, nicest, or have the biggest
blue neon sign and a fountain does not mean that you are going to be
the most successful store.
The fact is that if you shop around you will be able to find a cheaper item elsewhere.
But, if you have a good relationship with a LFS and you believe that
they are providing a fair service at a fair price, the LFS will make a
sale.
IMO, The above statement is a very immature way of looking at customer
service and in the end will cause many problems for the LFS.
Jeff
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Jeff Rasmussen
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jeffras
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 11:24pm |
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Reefnut,
Doesn't directing the customer to the website for the club's opinion
offload a lot of the questions and time that the customer has to spend
with the employee's?
I think it is more about the fact that the industry thrives on the lack
of knowledge of the average aquarium keeper. Most companies exploit
this lack of knowledge. This list allows these people a wealth of
knowledge.
Examples of things that this club does to hurt the LFS:
1. Using common baking products instead of expensive LFS products bites
into the LFS margins. Kalkwasser at LFS is ~12.00 for 1/2 pound while
pickling lime is ~4.00 for 1 pound.
2. Collecting utah rock and sand bites into the LFS margins (huge loss
of revanue). ~5.00 per pound for rock and ~1.50 for sand vs. FREE.
3. Buying frags from members. 5-25$ from member vs. 50$-150$ at LFS.
Examples of things that this club does to help the LFS:
1. Provide knowledge.
2. Bring in new hobbyists.
It is hard to say that the relationship is a win/win for the LFS.
Jeff
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Jeff Rasmussen
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reptoreef
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Posted: October 16 2005 at 11:26pm |
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The fact is, here in Utah, the pet business is extremely competitive and far more advanced than some other areas... not to mention, you can find several different stores in a relatively small area... our club could easily be recognized as yet, another competitor(a very prominant one at that). Being a prior owner, I can tell you it's not an easy thing... seems very "dog-eat-dog" and "cutthroat" to say the least. However, word-of-mouth advertisement is the strongest advertisement and it would benefit all to take advantage of that... so, to all of those LFS competing for that golden $$$, try taking a step back and realizing, your every customer is your boss... how you treat them is gonna decide if you get a paycheck once, over again, or at all. People will shop, some stores will succeed where others don't(there's many factors), diversity and good customer service are key, and keep up with the current trends. We(meaning everybody involved) can all benefit if we are willing to scratch eachother's backs... meaning the stores, customers, and the WMAS. Truth is, if something isn't done, the internet will prevail.
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Corey Price
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Posted: October 17 2005 at 12:12am |
I'll say only this (and this is all I will say!)-
Many LFS are helpful and good. I was a Looky Loo for a long time!
I've only heard one negative comment by an LFS I have been to about WMAS, and I attribute it to the personality of the individual and not to the desire to sell me things I didn't need. The best LFS will continue operation, and the not-so-great ones won't. Simple.
I personally like many of the LFS around and would thank a lot of them for being patient with my questions. I may have been ripped off at times and had good deals at others, but hey, knowledge isn't cheap! C'mon people, relax a bit! Please, let's channel our energy into learning and answering my canary blenny question in the "fish" section!
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