Nitrates

Gonzo, my personal belief is that a deep (4"-6") sand bed is the best way to rid your tank of nitrates. Of course water changes will work, but if you are like me, water changes are a pain in the rear. And I don't do them as much as I should. I know that my sand bed is working because if I look closely at it I see tiny bubbles below the surface. Those are the by-product of removing nitrate, I believe they are nitrogen. Also, just for kicks, clams will reduce a little of your nitrate. I also would like to hear other people's opinions on this topic. I hope this helps!

The key is to have a low oxygen area.  That is why Deep Sand beds work so well.

Gonzo, What prompted your question about nitrates? Every tank is different and every situation is unique. Tell us a little more and we can more effectively answer your specific need.

Mark

My skimmer is working well, and I feed little. However my nitrates are often at 20ppm. I'm working toward a more automated system so I don't have to do so many water changes and wanted to know what works best for nitrate removal.

I would bet on that.  From my experience and the experience of club members..... sand sifting stars eat way too many of your microverts.  The problem is that the microverts are needed to eat and break down small organic particles.  Without them, the tank doesn't have enough "filtration" if you want to call it that.

I'm not positive..... but I would be very suspicious of the star.  That is what I would guess is the culprit.

Adam

Gonzo,

You know me and I know you. Call me if you would like to hash this out in a couple minutes rather than days. My number is on club emails 296-1563

Every tank has different needs depending on how it is set up. Just hearing stuff like deep sand beds work well, or, get rid of those [stupid] sand sifting stars IS correct information, but probably isn't enough to solve your specific problem. The other day I was visiting a members home (that member is probably reading this right now) and they proudly showed off their [stupid] sand sifting sea star. I could tell that they really liked it so I told them in a nice way that some people have determined that the [stupid] things eat good stuff in the sand. So if you like what you've got, keep it and deal with the consequences, but if you want some real answers tell us your real setup and we can tell you what is really causing your nitrate problem. Otherwise we can keep throwing out possibilities like shooting a .22 at a flock of geese, hoping you will hit one.

Maybe the following questions will help you get started with your description: (sorry , you may have told me some of this when we first met, but I forgot)

Size of tank?  Sand depth?  plenum or no? outside filter, sump or refugia? bioballs? water circulation? frequency and amount of water changes? number of invertebrates? soft or hard coral? coral response to 20ppm nitrate level? number and type of fish? response of fish? recent deaths?

This may also interest you.

Years ago when those "maximum allowable" nitrogen compound levels were starting to take hold and became the "bible" of water testing, people were not so familiar with nor were they using the effective natural systems we have come to recognize as the best of our day. There really are more elements and conditions of water than the basic Nitrogen, Oxygen, CO2, Phosphorous, Ca, KH, pH. There are other compounds including organic compounds that give life to the water that create a healthy environment. Also the interplay of things like pH, KH and Ca is extremely crucial to the health of the tank. What I am saying is that your nitrate level may not be a problem at all if there are other compensating factors. If the animals are okay, why worry?!!!

So, have I confused you, or bothered you, or hopefully, educated you and caused you to look at your system as a complex but fascinating puzzle?

Looking forward to your response,

Mark  296-1563 (sorry, I guess a phone defeats the usefulness of this forum)

P.S.  How do I get this text to stop double spacing when I hit "enter"?

You know, I just had a wonderful thought about those stupid stars!

Let's say that these stars are actually a good thing in a way. Imagine them roaming through the reef disturbing the sand and helping really stir it up in a way that is beneficial as a matter of periodic maintenance. It's when they are confined to our closed systems that they cause havoc because they finish off their favorite stuff and start eating everything else , in essence cleaning up too good.

 Hmmm... that gives me an idea... I will take those stars from you. Can you bring them to the presidency meeting? I'll take everyones sand sifting stars. I have a job for them.

Mark 296-1563

I'd like to tell you guys why I got my sand star to begin with and maybe you guys can come up with some answers.  The sand was always becoming discolored (green and brown) and I was wanting it to stay white.  He does a really good job at keeping it looking good.  So it does do some binificial things to the tank.  Now one thing I have always read about in magazines and hearing from other folks is that it is bad to have some types of algae in your tank.  But if you look in the ocean it is all over the place but it is controled naturaly.  I think that by not having some of the phosphates and iron and all these other elements in our tanks we are constantly fighting to keep our corals alive.  Where does it end?  Well like Mark said, if your animals are doing well, why bother things.  Well there is one coral that I have that has not been doing well lately and I'm not totally sure why.  Its a bubble coral.  But one might think that the nitrates being high would be the problem, but maybe there are other elements that it needs that have been depleted in my tank.  I don't know.  And I think that no-one will know, but you just have to keep trying new things.  Its a science experiment.  But I think we all want A's.  I think I have a B right now.  And I think it will take many more years to get to an A.

Okay here is another thought from me.  I wrote something earlier, but then deleted it and decided not to post it because of causing more debating, but......

Mark posted it for me.  I can't believe Mark said it.  These stars DO have  a beneficial place in the tank.  They get a bad rap (maybe deservedly so) but they aren't stupid by any means.  They may or may not be very reef safe, but they are great in fish only tanks.  So..... they can be useful in certain tanks.  Which is why I think Mark could use them   (living planet maybe?)

If your tank looks good..... leave them in!!!!!  If not, take em out!!!

Adam

I would have to agree with Adam.  Although it is possible that the Sand Sifting Stars my disturb the sand bed, and it they can eat some of the beneficial life that lives in the sand, they also can do many good things.

If the sand bed is not used for Nitrate removal, which it is not in many tanks, or there is a barrier placed in the sand bed so that the star is only able to burrow 1-2" down then I believe that the Sand Sifting Stars can have a place in a reef.

Completely disagree with the [stupid] sand sifting sea star (sorry Mark).

I think this is a matter of opinion and do understand the argument against putting them in your tank, but don’t agree with it complete.

Just my $.02 (again).