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vfrocket 
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 Topic: Bubbles in Refugium
Posted: October 19 2007 at 3:17am |
Hello, I am new to the board, but I read some threads and it seems like there is a bunch of nice helpful people here.
I just got finished plumbing my 150 gal dual overflow tank to my refugium. I filled it with water to test everything out and it works as planned. Only one problem, the water coming down from the tank into the refugium from the overflows has allot of bubbles in it, and one of the inlets tends to girgle and make alot of noise. I am currently using clear vinyl tubing to go to my homemade refugium. I like it cuz I can see the water flow, but I wonder if I need to make some sort of pvc "S" contraption to keep the air from making it into the refugium. Any suggestions would be great. I will post pictures later today but right now I am at work and cannot post any pics. I hope I accurately described what is happening and perhaps someone has found a way to overcome this.
Thanks in advance.
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hairmonkey
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Posted: October 19 2007 at 8:26am |
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i used a in line ball valve to quiet mine. thats if your talking about a hang on back overflow. use it to slow the flow down. worked very well.
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 19 2007 at 8:55am |
Welcome vfrocket! It is normal for air to come down with the water. How do you have it set up inside the overflow? Is there some sort of standpipe?
Mike
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Dion Richins
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Posted: October 19 2007 at 9:21am |
Mike is correct. Water requires air in order to flow properly. Post your picks and we can help in setting a course of action. Rather if its a bubble trap in the refuge. Filter sock. (which will help quite it down) I personally run one to a filter sock and one into a tee that empties into my cheto ball. Disperses the bubbles and cushions the sound.
I don't personally like ball valves to slow the flow. Algae builds up, snails can plug them etc. I do use one on the overflow that goes from my 180 to my 75 seahorse tank. To keep it all safe (in my mind) I run 3 other drains. If that one gets plugged it gives me time to fix it before I have a flood.
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vfrocket
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Posted: October 19 2007 at 6:22pm |
Yes I have standpipes in the overflow, I bought them as a kit. I guess what I dont like is that one of the overflows makes alot of noise as it blows bubbles into the refugium. I tried a putting an endcap on one of the pipes with the shorter hose and drilled a hole in it about 1/2" dia. This seemed to help alot but it still makes like a popping sound every now and then.
Thanks for the replies.
Pics here:
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taylorwaldron
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Posted: October 19 2007 at 6:39pm |
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I had a ton of bubbles as well, I build a baffle with an under pass that helped keep them isolated, then I put in a filter sock... no bubbles get past that!
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vfrocket
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Posted: October 19 2007 at 7:12pm |
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would it help to put some kind of "S" bend in the pipe right before the fuge???
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Dion Richins
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Posted: October 19 2007 at 11:10pm |
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No. The air still has to exit.
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Corey Price
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Posted: October 20 2007 at 12:52am |
Yep, either plan for the bubbles or valve the drains. Sorry Dion, but water doesn't need air to flow  . If you want no bubbles, put in a gate valve on the drains, but also put in safety drains like Dion was talking about. Valves on drains make the drain a pure siphon, but you need a screened drain intake so that stuff doesn't plug the drain at the valve. If you can stand it, use a filter sock if you don't want to valve it. Filter socks tend to reduce the bubbles greatly. Baffles will also help, giving the bubbles in the water currents more time to get rid of the air. Also, a bit of macroalgae and/or LR rubble might help as well.
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vfrocket
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Posted: October 20 2007 at 5:20am |
Thanks for the ideas, I think part of the problem is also that one overflow is closer to the fuge than the other and the longer tube has time to build some pressure before dumping into the fuge. I will try a valve and see if that helps, otherwise I will just get used to it.
Thanks for all the great advise.
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Dion Richins
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Posted: October 20 2007 at 11:29am |
I'm not going to argue with you Corey but it does require air to drain with any kind of speed. With out a "vent" (air supply) water will drain very slow. Even with valving off a drain you still have a air supply from the durso above. You just slow the flow to the point of dropping the water slower than the air can hang on. If you've ever been involved with plumbing a house, this will make sense. ALL drains have a vent. Sink, Toilet, etc. If you block off the vent to any of these your item will drain very slow or GLUG back up like a liquid jug poured to fast. (hence the new gas cans with self venting)
So while its true it will drain, with out air it will be slow or inefficient. In this case that may be a good thing unless the valve gets any more plugged off and then the risk of flooding occurs.
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Corey Price
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Posted: October 20 2007 at 5:30pm |
Dion,
I agree with you, but come see my tank drains- no air. Full Siphon. No durso- the method is backing up the flow just the right amount. I have no bubbles from my drains because there isn't any air in them. I can show you that you can flow just as much water without air as with. My drains handle all of the Sequence pump and could go even more.
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vfrocket
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Posted: October 23 2007 at 5:37am |
I put a PVC ball valve on there and it seemed to do the trick. I didnt even need to turn it but a little. It seems all it needed was a little resistance...
thanks for the ideas, now on to live sand, rocks, and mud in the refugium... I'll keep you updated.
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bannshy
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Posted: October 23 2007 at 7:43am |
I lost my Mandrin Goby for 2 monthes and on my birthday I found it in the sump (it was a cool present) I think a valve on the overflow line would have caught the Mandrin half way down and i would have lost even more flow. also I have never put a snail in my fuge but it is full of them they travel down the pipe. just my experence.
jeremy
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 23 2007 at 8:28am |
Definitely a good idea to put some sort of screen on the intake side to prevent snails and fish from taking a wild ride.
Mike
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Gahlenfr
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Posted: October 23 2007 at 6:26pm |
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A formula for screens..... Input > Output = Flood! IME. Make sure you clean your screen very reqularly!
Edited by Gahlenfr - October 23 2007 at 6:27pm
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vfrocket
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Posted: November 02 2007 at 7:18am |
Well, here's an update. Got the refugium thing figured out. The bubbles seemed to subside some more when I got the salt mix stablized. Added live sand a few days ago to the main tank and everything finally settled. This week I will go get som live rock for the main tank, and also mud for the fuge... I will keep you posted.
Also forgot to mention to thoes who may ask. lighting is 3 250 watt 10K MH and 2 actinic VHO bulbs.
Hope to have specimens in the tank by Christmas.
Edited by vfrocket - November 02 2007 at 7:20am
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Mike Savage
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Posted: November 02 2007 at 1:48pm |
Thanks for the update. You are on your way now!
Mike
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