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BobC63 
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 Topic: Building a "better" Alkalinity Buffer
Posted: October 04 2010 at 8:26am |
I have tried the standard 'DIY' Alk buffer of baking soda / soda ash in the past, but found it just didn't work as well as some of the commercial mixes. I had to dose more, and more often, to maintain a given alk reading... true, it was alot cheaper - but it required more effort on my part.
I ended up using - and still use - Kent Superbuffer dKH. Works great, but man, it is expensive. Around $15.99 for a 1 kg (2.2 lb) container. With 2 tanks, totaling around 300g of water volume, I go through a 1 kg container about every 2 months. That's around $90 - $100 a year just to keep my Alk levels where I want them. Too much, IMO...
So, I set out to figure out 2 things.
1) Just why do the commercial mixes "work better"?
2) Can I duplicate a commercial mix - and do it for less $$$ ?
Edited by BobC63 - October 04 2010 at 12:44pm
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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jwoo
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Posted: October 04 2010 at 8:42am |
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At that price Bob just go and buy a calcium reactor. You'll see savings by the end of year two.
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None at the moment
Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront
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BobC63
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Posted: October 04 2010 at 8:48am |
I have a Ca reactor - but haven't hooked it up yet 
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 04 2010 at 9:38am |
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The commercial mixes are more concentrated.
I agree with Jwoo. When the amount of additive, the frequency and the hassle of use becomes too much, that's when a Ca reactor makes sense.
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DLindquist
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Posted: October 04 2010 at 10:00am |
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Bob- hook up that Calk Reactor. You will be glad you did. I have had mine in place for almost 10 years now. Besides making small adjustments to the Alk and Cal levels, all I have had to do is replace the medium (maybe once every 12-18 months) and refill the Co2 bottle (about every 3-4 years). Saving money is great, saving the hassle of daily dosing is priceless.
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A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have.
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BobC63
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Posted: October 04 2010 at 12:43pm |
Oh, don't worry guys - I"ll get that reactor up and running soon enough.
BUT, I also have my 37g tank that needs dosing... and I generally use Oceanic Salt for WCs... and Oceanic is generally high in Ca but low in Alk...
SO, I am thinking that I will still need to keep some buffer in the house.
AND... I already have this whole "better buffer" thing kinda figured out already... 
just holding out to finish my testing - and for 'dramatic effect'...
P.S. - Mark, the 'secret' is not that the commercial mix is more concentrated...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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BobC63
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Posted: October 04 2010 at 7:48pm |
Hint:
What are the Top 4 "ingredients" in a stony corals skeleton?
1) Calcium Carbonate
2) Magnesium
3) --------------
4) --------------
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: October 04 2010 at 8:26pm |
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Strontium and Molybdenum(sp?)
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BobC63
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Posted: October 04 2010 at 8:27pm |
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1 right & 1 wrong, Ryan...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 05 2010 at 9:32am |
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Are you talking about elements or minerals?
Several years ago, Jon Finch our resident Chemical Engineer/Chemist was making a better two part additive. I imagine it can be found in a search. As I recall the end result was that using the two Sodas and Calcium Chloride, and adding the the commonly available manufactured additives for trace elements was easier and less costly than trying to make your own B-ionic.
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BobC63
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Posted: October 05 2010 at 12:34pm |
C'mon Mark, play along
I am talking about trying to duplicate a commercial buffer like Kent Superbuffer dKH, or ESV B-Ionic ... Superbuffer dKH is my alk dosing chemical of choice right now. I like it because it not only does a good job with alk but helps keep pH around / above 8.2... and I prefer the powder over the liquid stuff because you get more product for your $$$.
And they are not made up only of Sodium Carbonate & Bicarbonate, so using the standard "DIY" 4:1 mix of Carb / Bicarb is not a complete solution, IMO...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 07 2010 at 9:56am |
I'm looking forward to your results. I know B-ionic includes several additional ingredients. I am playing along.  To be honest I am still trying to find the answer to your quiz. I'm thinking it might be potassium, but it could also be sodium or phosphorus. I just don't know. I agree that Soda is not always enough for some, but when you add in the trace elements provided by feeding and monthly 10% water changes, don't you think the average reef aquarium will do just fine with the basic Alk, Ca and Mg homemade mixes?
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Davidwillis
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Posted: October 24 2010 at 12:28am |
 BobC63 wrote:
AND... I already have this whole "better buffer" thing kinda figured out already...
just holding out to finish my testing - and for 'dramatic effect'...
P.S. - Mark, the 'secret' is not that the commercial mix is more concentrated...
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How long do you plan on holding out for?
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 25 2010 at 9:23am |
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Are we there yet?
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BobC63
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Posted: October 26 2010 at 3:32am |
In my head I'm there, Mark 
I've just been super busy at work - like 65 hr workweeks - and not quite finished with the actual chem work on the ALK blend just yet
Have the proportions to 3 ingredients ready (and the actual ingredients) just need to figure out the proportions for the 4th one... then formulate the blend procedure and times, etc.
(Can you tell I work for a pharma Co? )
Looking to have an initial batch of around 30 - 40 kg ready maybe in time for the MWRF
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also been working out my own version of the 'ultimate' reef food that's been kicking around in my head for a few months now. A single food that will truly feed your entire reef...
Way better than even Rod's... trust me
If I can actually do it the way I have thought it out, it will be truly unique food item 
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 26 2010 at 9:58am |
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awesome
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