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Mark Peterson 
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 Posted: January 15 2012 at 7:45pm |
What Bob said. I seem to recall that you already checked the source water, right? And give it some time. If no change after 2 weeks, I would bet you have some LR or even just one piece of LR that could be the culprit. For two years the tank was working with it but for some reason could not handle it after the move. This is an unusually crazy situation, for sure. 
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chk4tix
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Posted: January 15 2012 at 8:05pm |
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I have tested my water and it has 0 p04s. As far as buying any additional equipment for p04 removal that is out of the question. I have spent way to much money on this system trying to resolve the issue that I am not willing to buy any thing else ( live stock included). I will continue to dose vodka which is used to eliminate p04 and hope that takes care of my problem. I will post an update in a few weeks and I am hopeful that there will be a change for the better that I can report.
On a side note, I would have to say I wish I wouldn't have put the "Utah" sand in because it was way to fine of a grain that there was always sand floating around in the water colum. Now that I removed the sand my take water already looks a lot clearer.
Edited by chk4tix - January 15 2012 at 8:06pm
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 16 2012 at 11:53am |
 chk4tix wrote:
... way to fine of a grain that there was always sand floating around in the water column. Now that I removed the sand my take water already looks a lot clearer. |
That statement is a very conclusive indication to me that the sand was not right. I expect the PO4 level to drop but I don't believe that Carbon Dosing can bring it down close enough to where it should be, plus with Carbon Dosing the PO4 is still recirculating within the system. As bacteria die the PO4 dissolves back into the water. I can understand your frustration but take a moment and take a breath. Since you have come this far, why not go the rest of the way. You are almost there. Time will allow algae harvesting to remove the PO4 or if you want to remove it more quickly, use just a small amount, may be a cup, of Activated Alumina, the lower cost of the two PO4 removal media. Maybe someone here would be happy to donate it, I know I would, if I were there, and with Bridal Veil material as your media "bag", the cost will be almost zero.
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chk4tix
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Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:16am |
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Well, I decided to give an update. From my last post, I did end up buying a GFO reactor and media to remove the p04 from my tank. I added the first "batch" of GFO and in about 3 days the P04 dropped to .35, then started to climb back up after about a week. The remainder of my SPS that as attached to my egg-create in the frag tank died, so I decided to pull out the egg-crate from my tank in case it could be that as Bob stated. I then I replaced the media and the p04 dropped to .25, but again after about a week it slowly began to climb again. I used the rest of the media that I had and was only able get it down to .25 again. This media is now spent and I have disconnected the reactor and in 2 days my p04 is back up to .50.
Unfortunately it appears that I have lost this battle. I gave myself the ultimatum that if I couldn't get this issue resolved, I would sell what I have and take a break for a little bit and try it again on a smaller level. So I will be listing my livestock, equipment and the few corals I have left over the next while.
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troyholl
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Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:37am |
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Have you checked for copper? I had a bad experience a few years ago and discovered copper in my tank. Killed off about everything and took forever to figure out. I got a test kit and sure enough that was the problem. Ended up pulling lots of our sand out and funning a copper removing sponge for a while and all is well today.
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Troy Hollingsworth
Riverton, Utah
270 Gallon "Custom" Tank
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phys
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Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:50am |
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you may have dead mass and stuff in the tank still and you havnt found it. It definitely could be in the sand, under, behind or in the rocks. Its hard to say where its coming from but i have heard people say their utah sand is the issue but thats not everyone, just seems to be a rare issue. I havent had an issue with mine (outside of dealing with phosphates due to some dead fish). Sorry to hear about your probs with the tank. Its a sad day when you decide to throw the towel in but maybe a new start will help.
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Kevin
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Posted: March 03 2012 at 12:53pm |
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I feel your pain. I went through a similar process back in 2008 (though my tank never looked as good as yours did). I had algea growing like crazy and fought it for months on end. In the end I decided to do what you are doing and get out. I sold off all my fish and some/most of my corals. I removed my refugiums/sand, and took what I had left and put it in a smaller 30 gallon and left it up while trying to sell corals. In the new setup I finally was able to get rid of my algea problems but my corals still didn't grow well even though I thought things should be better. Sometimes I wonder if live rock can go bad?
Anyway, In the end before I got out I bought a jbj hqi nano cube and vowed to do better. I set it up with new live rock, and kept pieces of my favorite corals. I did weekly water changes and this tank did awesome and left me with a much better taste in my mouth. I kept that one for 2 years before getting out of the hobby but it was a very rewarding experience.
Now I am looking to get back in. Sometimes it takes getting out and starting over.
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chk4tix
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Posted: March 03 2012 at 12:54pm |
troyholl wrote:
Have you checked for copper? I had a bad experience a few years ago and discovered copper in my tank. Killed off about everything and took forever to figure out. I got a test kit and sure enough that was the problem. Ended up pulling lots of our sand out and funning a copper removing sponge for a while and all is well today. |
I have tested for copper and it did not test positive. (I did have a copper problem in my very first tank (29g nano) that was caused by a brass top off valve)
phys wrote:
you may have dead mass and stuff in the tank still and you havnt found it. It definitely could be in the sand, under, behind or in the rocks. Its hard to say where its coming from but i have heard people say their utah sand is the issue but thats not everyone, just seems to be a rare issue. I havent had an issue with mine (outside of dealing with phosphates due to some dead fish). Sorry to hear about your probs with the tank. Its a sad day when you decide to throw the towel in but maybe a new start will help. |
I don’t see where there could be any "dead mass" in my tank. My rocks were all of the sand bed and there was really no place for anything to build up. When I completely removed the sand, I also cleared out my sump, my frag tank, and my 40g anemone tank to make sure I didn’t miss anything. I guess there could be an unknown rock leaching into the water but there is not really a way to identify it. I am not sure what is causing my problem, but I do know I have run out of ideas...
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rfoote
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Posted: March 03 2012 at 1:11pm |
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I've had a handful of tanks over the years, and for the most part all setup and maintained the same. I had one tank that I fought bryopsis continually, regardless what I did to fight it over an 18month process(I honestly tried about everything I did research on and advise given) Nothing helped!
All I can chalk it up to was possible silicates from sand(not Utah sand) or something leaching from live rock. I finally got so sick of it, I took the tank down...
Edited by rfoote - March 03 2012 at 1:12pm
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: March 03 2012 at 3:48pm |
chk4tix wrote:
Well, I decided to give an update. From my last post, I did end up buying a GFO reactor and media to remove the p04 from my tank. I added the first "batch" of GFO and in about 3 days the P04 dropped to .35, then started to climb back up after about a week. The remainder of my SPS that as attached to my egg-create in the frag tank died, so I decided to pull out the egg-crate from my tank in case it could be that as Bob stated. I then I replaced the media and the p04 dropped to .25, but again after about a week it slowly began to climb again. I used the rest of the media that I had and was only able get it down to .25 again. This media is now spent and I have disconnected the reactor and in 2 days my p04 is back up to .50.
Unfortunately it appears that I have lost this battle. I gave myself the ultimatum that if I couldn't get this issue resolved, I would sell what I have and take a break for a little bit and try it again on a smaller level. So I will be listing my livestock, equipment and the few corals I have left over the next while. |
Keith! That sucks man! Sorry to hear this but I'm calling dibs on some items. LOL
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chk4tix
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Posted: May 04 2012 at 11:22am |
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I have changed my mind and have decided to give it another go. Even though I have lost 95% of all my SPS and 80% of my LPS, I cannot bring myself to sell of my system just yet. I will be slowly restarting my system from the ground up to see if I can get things back to looking good. I might even start a "build" thread to cover the process.
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chk4tix
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 12:48pm |
. Since I have been redoing my setup, I have added 80lbs of dry rock to my tank and my p04 went up to .38ppm but is down to .17 so I believe that I have already past the peak. I have begun to have some success with my p04 problems. I am currently sitting at .17ppm which i think is pretty good since it was originally above 1.0. I have a few follow up questions now. Because of the vodka dosing I was doing I didn't really have a Refugium set up because all of my Marco just died and the hair algae flourished. I cleaned out the refugium and I added so macro. I want to know if it is prefered to have LR and LS in this area or if it should only be a place for macro. I currently have LS and LR on half of the refugium but am looking for others opinions on how they would do this. Here are some pics to help illustrate what I am doing Full sump pic: leftside is where the tank returns and the skimmer are, the return is in the center, and the refugium is on the right  This is a pic of just the refugium area  This pic Is to show the internal separator which splits the refuguim in half. This area is about 25g  Do I need more or less LR or LS?
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Akira
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Posted: May 19 2012 at 1:27am |
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ok im rather new and after reading all of this post and your new set up just had 1 question. no fuge and vodka dosing ? maybe not using vodka and running a fuge would be better ? Could u have had a bad vodka with a sort of flavoring in it ? Just a thought as u had covered everything else.
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laynframe
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Posted: May 28 2012 at 2:01pm |
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Maybe I didnt see it but what kind of ro system are you running and how old are the filters and membrane? PO4 will piss off your sps, Im dealing with that now. I started using Brightwell Aquatics Xport-po4 remover. This stuff is insane and will reduce your po4 fast, and last for a year! Tyler at Elite-Aquatics can get it for you. You have to reduce your po4 slowly so im adding these cubes slowly. Your turbo twist is too small and I would say pretty useless, how many gph are you flowing through it? You should have minimum of the turbo twist 18, its rated up to 400 gal, but these are over rated a little and I would run the turbo twist 36. Good Luck I thought I would put in my 2 cents.
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The time we enjoy wasting isn't wasted time!!!!
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