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DLindquist 
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 Posted: March 23 2012 at 12:09pm |
 bur01014 wrote:
DLindquist wrote:
Power costs aside-
Connie, I am curious how often you will need to replace bulbs. I've heard mixed reviews about T-5's. Many say for adequate lighting the bulbs should be over driven which leads to replacing bulbs every 6 months. I've also heard if the bulbs are not kept cool, they shift colors and need frequent replacing. Keep us updated as time progresses. |
Just clearing up some misinformation and also strengthing Connie, lol - there are way too many MH lovers in this thread!
1. for adequate lighting the bulbs should be over driven - False - her ATI is putting out just as much if not more light than many 250-400 watt MH setups....google for PAR readings, or go to link below. I'm surprised how people still assume this to be the case....
2. Over driving bulbs leads to replacing every 6 months - True - her ATI doesn't overdrive bulbs, nor does it need to unless she wanted to bleach every coral in sight, replacement is not necessary for 10-12 months as the ATI fixture is stellar at cooling the bulbs properly. <- this has been tested and proven, RC - you can find the test results on how much PAR drops each month here
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1641235
Most important piece of information in here is that Connie switched from MH to the ATI and now finds that her colors and growth have improved....
Maybe she is in denial because she spent so much money on the fixture, or maybe she is telling the truth?! I would be more interested in some before and after pics? Who cares about cost? 
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Like it or not- MH are tried and true.
1. and 2. This is the exact reason I ask. I have no experience running these fixtures. I would love to see some before and after pics.
As far as cost- my wife cares a great deal!
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A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have.
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jwoo
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 12:10pm |
DLindquist wrote:
Like it or not- MH are tried and true.
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I'd say that at this point T5 are just as tried and true as MH.
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None at the moment
Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront
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BobC63
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 12:17pm |
For me it's a simple choice:
If you like the "shimmer" look, go with MH
If that look is not important to you, go with T5
Both will work just fine.
T5s tend to use less electricity - but it can depend on the application.
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Laird
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 12:19pm |
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I have energy efficient LEDs but I have 72 of them, and two 54 t5 bulbs on my main tank for 324 watts. I also have a frag tank with a 4 bulb tek light. Run big pumps, skimmers, UV, reactors, refug lights, the whole 9 yards. My power bill average over the year is 75 bucks a month... not 75 for my tanks, 75 for my entire house.
When I ran MH and T5s and no frag tank by power bill in the summer would be close to 200 because of the AC running so much to cool down the room from the damn MHs.
And to the other question: t5s absolutely work, there is not question about that. I personally think the look you can get with the right mix of t5s is way better then any MH bulb.
Edited by Laird - March 23 2012 at 12:20pm
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Indefinite hiatus from sw aquariums.
Once I have my glorious return I'll set back up the following.
50 Gallon rimless cube.
180 Gallons mixed reef paradise
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bur01014
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 1:17pm |
If MH is so great, why are they always paired with T5s or VHO? Can't
they hack it alone? I'm sure chiller manufacturers love MH...
jk....just playin... 
On the flip side - T5s paired with LEDs I would argue to be the best
combination - gets rid of the heat, allows fine tuning of color, and
provides shimmer...however, until LED technology slows down and they become more "tried and true" I would only suggest using them as supplemental, with the t5s still acting as the main source of light. Just an opinion- but I can't believe we are having a little light argument/discussion here and Ryan has yet to show up...
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 1:42pm |
bur01014 wrote:
Just an opinion- but I can't believe we are having a little light argument/discussion here and Ryan has yet to show up...
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You guys are arguing about MH and T5. That is so 2011! 
I was actually going to comment last night but didn't get around to it. Here are my thoughts:
If Connie had 3 - 250w MH before, she was probably running close to 900w in lights and a little for a fan. I can't imagine a fan using more than 50w but we will say 100w to make easy numbers. Her 900w of lighting plus 100w fan comes out to 1000w or 1kw/h.
If she ran her lights and fan for 10 hours a day she will use 10kw a day for just lighting with her MH setup.
Her T5s are now running at 80w/bulb and she has 8 of them. With the fans running on the fixture she is right around 700w with all lights on. If she runs all lights for a total of 10 hours like before, she is using 7kw a day.
MH to run daily - 10kw and I think most of Utah is around 0.10 cents a kw. Therefore her lighting only cost about $1/day to run.
T5 - 7kw a day comes out to $0.70/day to run.
Meaning her lights only shaved off about $0.30 a day and really only saved about $9/month.
So something else is at play here IMO. Rates could have gone down or some other odd item that isn't really accounted for in the house is not being used as much. It is hard to say.
As for the whole MH vs T5, that debate is long over. Both work for anything you want. One is not better than the other in terms of PAR and growth.
I moved onto LEDs a year ago and have no intention to switch back to MH or T5. I was ready to go back to MH about 3 months ago but stuck it with LEDs and revamped my system. Things are looking great now for me.
So for me, MH and T5 are old technology in this hobby. They are tried and true but at this point in time - so are LEDs.
Those are come cell phone pics of my tank from last week. The SPS has even more branches on it now and much better color than the picture. One major drawback for LEDs is pictures. I can't get any good pictures no matter how hard I try. It is sad that my cell phone takes better pics than my DSLR. It is user error though with the DSLR.
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jwoo
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 1:53pm |
Ryan Thompson wrote:
As for the whole MH vs T5, that debate is long over. Both work for anything you want. One is not better than the other in terms of PAR and growth.
I moved onto LEDs a year ago and have no intention to switch back to MH or T5. I was ready to go back to MH about 3 months ago but stuck it with LEDs and revamped my system. Things are looking great now for me.
So for me, MH and T5 are old technology in this hobby. They are tried and true but at this point in time - so are LEDs.
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None at the moment
Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront
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bur01014
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 2:08pm |
"I moved onto LEDs a year ago and have no intention
to switch back to MH or T5. I was ready to go back to MH about 3 months
ago but stuck it with LEDs and revamped my system. Things are looking
great now for me.
So for me, MH and T5 are old technology in this hobby. They are tried and true but at this point in time - so are LEDs."
Lol, I love this - I have followed your posts on Reef Central and found that you flip-flop over lighting more than most politicians do over controversial bills that influence vote counts.
Depending on the month - I would never know whether you were against LEDs, were going back to your ATI sunpower, or were going to add MH - only to find your ad in the classifieds a short time later selling the MH setup. I think I learned a great lesson from your posts throughout the last year - give LEDs a year before you cast judgment. Who has a year to give though?
Edited by bur01014 - March 23 2012 at 2:42pm
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 2:52pm |
bur01014 wrote:
"I moved onto LEDs a year ago and have no intention
to switch back to MH or T5. I was ready to go back to MH about 3 months
ago but stuck it with LEDs and revamped my system. Things are looking
great now for me.
So for me, MH and T5 are old technology in this hobby. They are tried and true but at this point in time - so are LEDs."
Lol, I love this - I have followed your posts on Reef Central and found that you flip-flop over lighting more than most politicians do over controversial bills that influence vote counts.
Depending on the month - I would never know whether you were against LEDs, were going back to your ATI sunpower, or were going to add MH - only to find your ad in the classifieds a short time later selling the MH setup. I think I learned a great lesson from your posts throughout the last year - give LEDs a year before you cast judgment. Who has a year to give though? |
It doesn't take a year to cast judgement. It takes the right setup. Just like T5 and MH, a poorly designed LED setup will cause issues.
I originally started out with the common white/blue setup and hated the look. Unfortunately, I didn't have much choice to change things up without going DIY (which I didn't want to do).
I then later switched tanks and changed my LEDs up a bit. I added in a some red and violet LEDs to the mix. My corals took off for a little bit but then everything started going brown on me. It was at that point I was ready to give up on LEDs and go back to MH.
I decided to throw on an all white module from Ecoxotic and start things out VERY slowly. Within a week things turned around for me. I then added more and more time on my photo period until I got to where I am today.
My tank isn't show quality right now, but between 40 hour work weeks and 14 credit hours, the tank doesn't get a ton of love unfortunately. Thankfully summer is almost here!
LEDs do work. If you aren't comfortable with waiting and playing around, don't use them. How many people still think T5s are crap and "need a year" because they started out with the wrong setup?
It is the cost of being some of the first to try out a new technology. Guess who was using T5s over 6 years ago? Yep, I was. I guess I like the technology side of this hobby.
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Connie
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 4:25pm |
WOW.. been working a lot so I have been out of this loop.
Lights were on 12 hours per day, I am not kidding about the bill I will be happy to show you a Rocky Mnt. statement for the last year. My husband and son have been out of work for three months so if anything, the bill would be higher. 20 year olds out of work watch a lot of Jersey Shore although I am at a loss of to why......
I have been a halide fan and user for 15 years, I can tell you I will NEVER go back!!!! I do plan to replace the bulbs every 8 months or so. The cost for 3 250 watt blue lone bulbs was 65 each and shipping the cost for T-5 bulbs are the same if not less.
For pics of the tank you all know I cant post pics. Come to reef tour and see for your self. My polyp extension is crazy and my tank is exploding with color. Better color then I ever got out of a halide and I ran a 14K bulb...
You can be a doubter, I just say'en this is the case for me.
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I have flying monkeys and I'm not afraid to use them.
180 gallon money pit that I love.....
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Connie
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 4:32pm |
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I should add that Tresa also had halides and loved my lights so much she bought the same fixture.... She can tell you the color and growth with the ATI is better then any MH bulbs or set up out there..
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I have flying monkeys and I'm not afraid to use them.
180 gallon money pit that I love.....
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DLindquist
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 5:11pm |
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Connie,
I've never seen a tank with as much colors as yours. I can't imagine your tank with even more color. I'm going to have to stop by. And no, I'm not doubting you.
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A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have.
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Tresa
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 7:01pm |
Just to clear things up from my side..... I wanted the lights First!!!! There is no comparison as far as color..... I ran (3) 250 watt hqi's with pc's....the second we hung the fixture and turned it on (which took about ten minutes) every coral looked better... more color and better polyp extension. There are colors coming out in my lps that were not there before.... I no longer have heat issues, the cyano is not as bad (I over feed it will always be a problem) and I can plug my vacuum in to the outlets in the same room as the tank without tripping the breaker.... woohoo!! Everyone has their opinions but I am VERY happy that I switched...
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bur01014
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 12:25am |
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Tresa & Connie- What is your bulb combo and order? Interested to find out what you settled on...
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Connie
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 4:59am |
We both went with Ryan's recommendation of 1 GE 6500k, 2 purple plus, and 5 blue plus.
My 9 year old neighbor boys said it best " It's shinier"
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I have flying monkeys and I'm not afraid to use them.
180 gallon money pit that I love.....
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